Ribbons on foreign Victory Medals

[depaor01]

While perusing a local selling site, I came across two sellers, one with an Italian and another with a Belgian VM.

It prompted two questions. One was "should I start collecting them all?" which I immediately answered with "no".

The other question I'm putting out to forum friends with some more added for interest:

Are the ribbons for the various nations exactly the same, or did each nation make ribbons for just their own awards? If they did make their own, how would a collector know that rainbow ribbon was the correct one for the award? Does it matter???

Thanks! 

Dave

[Chasemuseum]

For a very long time (over 20 years) getting the full set of WW1 Victory medals has been very costly. Add to that, there are now reproductions of many of the rarer ones and without good access to originals its difficult to avoid those wonderful people that pass off a reproduction as an original. Accordingly I strongly agree with your decision to avoid collecting the set.

 

The ribbon was nominally common to all of the medals. In practice there were minor variations in design and material which has been exacerbated by 100 years of age. The original ribbons are now much more visibly different for the different nations. For medal collectors the decision of when to replace a decayed ribbon has always been difficult. If a veteran needed to wear their medals regularly, in particular as a regular soldier where medals were part of their uniform, ribbons were regularly replaced.

So the importance of the origin and age of the ribbon is a matter for the individual collector.

 

In the 90s a collector in Sydney was regularly bringing a framed full set (less one medal he had never been able to find) to the arms fairs to sell. I was very tempted by the set, I recognized the effort to put the set together. The price was reasonable. But with a young family at the time I passed on it knowing that once it was sold I would be unlikely to ever have the opportunity again.  

[depaor01]

Ah yes. The find of a lifetime not bought. All too familiar to me.

The origin and age conundrum is one I'm familiar with. I've only ever added ribbons to medals I bought where none were present. A BWM with a victory ribbon sits proudly in my collection because it was stitched in place by the man who earned it and won't replaced by me.

I'd love to see a side by side comparison of for instance the original British watered ribbon with an original from another allied version. 

Dave

[Chasemuseum]

6 hours ago, depaor01 said:

the original British watered ribbon with an original from another allied version.

That set, was mostly with the original ribbons. They had all aged considerably and the way they had aged had significantly increased the degree of difference between the ribbons from the time of issue.

Buyers regret and non-buyers regret are the twin curses of collecting. Back about 1996 to 1998 when I was looking at these medals the asking price was AUD$2,500, about GBP1,000. So not cheap, but I think fairly good value as it included all but one medal (Cuba or Siam, I cannot remember). This was a period when the Australian militaria market had taken a huge plunge downward following changes in firearm laws. It was before the internet and eBay. So a collapse in local market prices had a massive impact on the value of any collection. This makes a new reasonable size purchase highly questionable.

There are dangers in collecting. The German WW2 collectors here have been savaged by the new laws that came in place here last month. Many collections are now worth nothing. Buying, selling, swapping - any form of exchange and any form of transport over public land of items with Nazi insignia is now a crime under counter terrorism laws and subject to a year in prison. Even sending a photo through the post or via email is a crime. Even buying an Airfix model airplane kit that includes a swastika amongst the decals, is a crime, for everyone involved in the sale.

 

 

 

[TullochArd]

12 hours ago, depaor01 said:

 

Are the ribbons for the various nations exactly the same, or did each nation make ribbons for just their own awards? If they did make their own, how would a collector know that rainbow ribbon was the correct one for the award? Does it matter???

Thanks! 

A wise decision to pass on that one.  I tried in the late seventies and gave up. It was infinitely harder to locate the rarer originals in pre-internet times and although dodgy, and then very poor, fakes were around, they were easily spotted.  I am aware of an early full set, with what I recall were original ribbons, in a dark corner of the Gordon Highlanders Museum in Aberdeen that I used for reference around 1980. Maybe they are still there. I say these ribbons appeared original because they had aged differently compared to mine which by then had uniform "new" ribbon acquired from a five foot roll I bought in  military tailors in the Tidworth area. We live and learn.

 

[depaor01]

Thanks chaps for those comprehensive replies. Bearing in mind forum rules about  "authenticity" posts, I have no intention of buying these and posting for ribbon comparison only, so based on the info supplied, I guess this one is original:

...and the one below likely a British ribbon replacement. As I look at the second one  could the ribbon width be a giveaway for a British replacement?

As for German WW2 legislation in Australia I hadn't heard of these new laws. Very worrying development which I hope doesn't spread.  I collect German orders and decorations from that period. It's ironic that I was able to freely purchase such items last December in Berlin. In Germany it is quite legal to own such things as long as they aren't used for political purposes. A sensible rule IMO.

Dave

[TullochArd]

1 hour ago, depaor01 said:

...and the one below likely a British ribbon replacement. As I look at the second one  could the ribbon width be a giveaway for a British replacement?

Dave, I'm certain that all Victory Medals, from whatever country, came on aa agreed standard 39mm watered silk ribbon.  British medal ribbons are a narrower 32mm.  This has caused generations of British military tailors dramas and is repeated today with NATO medals which also use a wider ribbon.  As far as I'm aware there is no official narrow replacement medal ribbon for the British Victory Medal but I am aware, having been stung a couple of times, that many miles of narrow VM ribbon were recently produced and are being sold off as the real deal.  Caveat emptor!  In the case of the Italian VM it's a modern replacement. T.A.

[depaor01]

Thanks again T.A. and Chasemuseum.

Dave