Captured british BL 6-inch (15,2-cm) L/44,7 Mk VII naval gun at Galipoli?

[Holger Kotthaus]

Captured British BL 6-inch (15,2-cm) L/44,7 Mk VII naval gun at Galipoli?

 

Seems to be a undamaged British Gun 15,2-cm Naval Gun on a land carriage?

Does anyone know which unit used this gun type, and when and where it was lost?

If it really is a captured gun, is it perhaps also known whether the Turks later used it?

Original Source: BOĞAZ’IN FEDAİLERİ 1, Çanakkale Boğazı Tahkimatları, Bayram Akgün, Istanbul 2018

 

Translation from the original turkish headline:

“The gun in the photo is a 150/45 ship gun. It is understood that the visible sea behind

is not within the Bosphorus, as there is no land visible in front of it. Since the cannon

 placed in the Tekeburnu Battery faces the Aegean Sea rather than the Bosphorus,

it is very likely that this cannon is one 150-gun cannon in the Tekeburnu Battery.

 

Regards Holger

 

 

 

[Keith_history_buff]

To add some confusion:

There is a photo of a six inch howitzer, taken at Gallipoli. Some French soldiers are nearby, and the caption wrongly attributes it to be a French artillery piece. It gets a mention here, with a better definition photo of said artillery piece:
https://forum.pages14-18.com/viewtopic.php?p=536057#p536057

I did believe this was left behind, as per the British official history, page 469.

'It was decided to retain and finally destroy one British 6-inch gun and six old heavy French guns which it would be impossible to withdraw on the last night. (General Brulard himself suggested the destruction of these old and nearly worthless guns.)'

[michaeldr]

If the gun is Naval (as it appears it is) then it was probably from Anzac, where according to the British OH Vol.II, p.459, the following guns left were behind 
four 18-pdrs, 
two 5-inch howitzers, 
one 12-pdr A.A. Gun, 
one 3-pdr, 
and one 4.7-inch [approx. 11.94cm] Naval gun.
The orders were that they were to be destroyed, however there is also a note that “all save one [the AA gun] were worn out and practically useless.”

Holger, a word about the English nomenclature used with regard to this theatre … 
east to west:-
The Bosphorus stretches from the Black Sea to Istanbul, where it enters the Sea of Marmara
The Sea of Marmara is from Istanbul to the the Dardanelles.
The Dardanelles, stretch from the Sea of Marmara to the Aegean.

The allied armies and their artillery never made it as far as the Bosphorus [though the Navy's submarines and the aircraft of the RNAS may have come close, (they certainly got as far as Istanbul)].
If the photograph was taken at Anzac, then the water behind the gun must be the Aegean.
 

best regards

Michael

Edited 2 February by michaeldr

[michaeldr]

Well, my above must be wrong as the AWM have photographs of this gun, including one after it had been destroyed https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C300823?image=1

Other photographs of this gun include

 https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C194066
https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C217263
https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C300822

[michaeldr]

Keith may well be right in identifying the gun as being at Helles, (though the 6-inch there is described as a gun rather than a howitzer) and yet the OH makes no mention of it being Naval. Farndale in his history of the RA 'The Forgotten Fronts ...' mentions only one naval gun, the previously referred to 4.7-inch.  ... A mystery ...

Edited 2 February by michaeldr

[Keith_history_buff]

The photo in the original post does remind me of the 4.7 inch gun, made in 1:32 scale by William Britain's Ltd until the end of the 1970s. The wheels differ, though.

[alantwo]

Two 4.7" naval guns were landed on 19th June at Lancashire Landing, they were placed at the disposal of the Chef d'Artillerie at Hill 238 and came into action on 22nd June.  However, both were unserviceable by the 16th July. The GHQ CRA states that there was a proposal for two 6 inch Mark XI naval guns to be sent to Helles and Lieutenant Colonel Nichol was sent to Mudros to take control of them in October, but the decision to land them was postponed at the end of the month. I haven't found any mention of them landing, but I'll keep looking over the weekend. Naval 12 pounders were landed at Helles and distributed amongst the Group Commanders, one was used as an anti-aircraft gun. 3 pounder naval guns were landed in July and were used occasionally by Artillery Group I at Helles.

I hope that helps.

Alan

 

[michaeldr]

Alan,

If the guns were used by the French then that would perhaps explain why they are missing from Farndale's history

4.7 inches = c.119.4mm; I have not come across any gun of that size, however there is something else which may (?) tie in here; a reference to 2 naval guns at about the same time.

A friend is busy translating a French diary and has the following for 12th July 1915:- 
“An enemy shell destroyed the breech of a naval 140mm (5.5-inch) gun, the other gun in the battery shattered; its breech is fitted on the first, which also stopped firing. … … 
Expenditure of artillery ammunition … … 140mm naval: 24 shells ...”

I'm also having difficulty with “Hill 238”; does your reference give any other clues?
 

regards,
Michael

Edited 3 February by michaeldr

[alantwo]

Michael

Alternative reference for 238 Hill from the GHQ CRA War Diary:

"The shore battery (two 6" guns French & two 4.7" guns naval) at DE TOTTES [De Tott's Battery] HILL 238 fired also a considerable number of rounds during the day, but the Turkish batteries remained still active in the late evening." 

The map below indicates a French 155mm Battery just to the west of Groupe Sainpére, could these be the two French Guns. If so, they are likely to be 2e Régiment, 56e Batterie de 155 Long, under Capitaine Gavois, I don't 'think' there is a war diary for this unit or at least I haven't found it yet.

Kind regards

Alan

 

Image reference: Mémoire des hommes, Pieces Justicatives, GR 26 N 75 010 0007 T, overlaid on 1:20,000 Kirthia Map – WFA, Mapping the Front, overlaid on Google Earth

Edited 3 February by alantwo

[michaeldr]

Thanks Alan,

Re the map's hand-written note indicating artillery '14 M'; according to the translation which I have seen, this refers to the 140mm (in British naval terms 5.5-inch) naval cannon. If neither of them was operable, then the French would almost certainly leave them behind at their evacuation, making them good candidates for Holger's gun.

regards, Michael

[alantwo]

Thanks Michael

If within the Groupe Sainpére, the French guns are probably from 30e Régiment, 52e Batterie de 155 Long, under Capitaine Michel.

Kind regards

Alan

[alantwo]

Michael

This may be of interest for the artillery 14 M, from Mémoire des hommes, Pieces Justicatives, archives_SHDGR__GR_26_N_76__004__0126__T.

This how the image appears and hasn't been cropped by myself.

Alan

 

[Holger Kotthaus]

Thank you for all comments and references.

 

@Keith

Yes; - In the french forum you mentioned there are also many interesting and instructive articles on the subject of artillery.

 

What is immediately noticeable first on the top photo is the profile and spokes of the metal wheels. These very

Art-typical and distinctive features of the carriage of this cannon- and howitzer-version also led me to conclude

that it is a 6 inch (15.2-cm), and not a 4.7 inch (12-cm) Gun-version.

 

BUT, on this photo, the 6 inch Mark VII cannon version also used a different carriage and different wheels!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/c1RsqPiZFWB2Dy7iw-n4pCjfiZsq5_dHBmqoNHN83nOCnRvflseGqVysJ2MGk_WLvPUP5WRZ8VNpqZilY7tQqpnqzbl_7D89f-PyRlKte6Q8LjQae2pXseKA13sF8-ArwYrdvQ

 

 

@Michael

Of course, a translation into another language always carries the risk of misunderstandings.

However, I see no absolute contradiction in the translated part and your statement.

The location of the “Tekeburnu Battery” is not yet known to me; - but may be able to help.

I'll also ask the author where he got this recording. The results will certainly help everyone here.

 

“4,7 inch gun landing at ANZAC 11. July 1915“

https://picryl.com/media/47-inch-gun-landing-at-anzac-11-july-1915-awm-j02403-e8ea3f?zoom=true

 

“Hauling 4,7 inch gun into position at ANZAC 1915“

https://picryl.com/media/hauling-47-inch-gun-into-position-at-anzac-1915-j06124-315b6a?zoom=true

https://picryl.com/media/hauling-47-inch-gun-into-position-at-anzac-1915-awm-j06125-a62228?zoom=true

 

You already listed:

https://picryl.com/media/wrecked-47-inch-gun-gallipoli-1915-awm-p01541014-cae924

“Wrecked 4,7 inch gun Gallipoili 1915“ ANZAC AREA. 1915. DAMAGED 4.7" GUN. POSSIBLY NAVAL OR

COASTAL ARTILLERY. THIS IS PROBABLY THE SAME GUN THAT WAS PURPOSELY DESTROYED IN

DECEMBER 1915, THE BARRELL OF WHICH WAS RECOVERED IN 1919. THIS IS NOW IN THE

COLLECTION OF THE AUSTRALIAN WAR MEMORIAL“

 

However, you can also clearly see the completely different wheels of the land carriage.

... A mystery ... That's what the Great War Forum is for! (-   -)

 

 

@Alan

I also think I read that there were two 4.7 inch naval guns used by British troops in the Dardanelles; - but I will check the “Mitchel Report” again.

 

I would be surprised if the photo picture a type: 6 inch Mark XI naval gun. The recoil brakes of the late

Mark XI Navy version, which are clearly located above the gun barrel, are not present in the photo. I am

also not aware that this later naval version was used with a wheel mount. But of course I could be wrong.

 

6 inch Mark VII Version https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2JRFTJ6/6-inch-naval-gun-overlooking-reykjavik-bay-in-iceland-august-1940-6-inch-naval-gun-overlooking-reykjavik-bay-in-iceland-august-1940-2JRFTJ6.jpg

6 inch Mark XI Version https://cutlerresearchcentre.com/gallery/arty-reg/display/arty-reg-au-nsw-georges-heights-6in-005.png

 

 

@ (Bayram Akgün)

The pictured gun is not a German 15-cm Q.F. L/40 or L/45 Gun type. Both Krupp gun variants looked

different and were not mounted on wheels. But I will look again in the documents for the “Tekeburnu Battery”.

 

If I compare the recognizable parts of the wheels and the gun-barrel in both photos, I am almost certain that it is the identical gun type.

Source: http://www.landships.info/landships/artillery_articles/images/Mark_VII_11.jpg

 

Regards Holger

 

Sorry; - I am to late with these answers; - you are to fast for me.

Edit: Many thanks for the additional helpful explanations; - will come back to this.

 

 

Edited 3 February by Holger Kotthaus

[michaeldr]

1 hour ago, alantwo said:

This may be of interest for the artillery 14 M, from Mémoire des hommes, Pieces Justicatives, archives_SHDGR__GR_26_N_76__004__0126__T.

Many thanks for this Alan. I have drawn the attention of my friend the translator to it as I feel sure that he will find it of interest. Thanks again.

Michael

[Holger Kotthaus]

In search of the origin of the gun . . . . .

 

The four BL 6 inch 30 cwt Howitzers of the 17th Siege Battery, which were present at ANZAC during

the evacuation, were equipped with a different mount and wooden spoke wheels, then the BL 6-inch Naval Gun.

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C3019

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/H15735?image=2

https://digital-classroom.nma.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-07/Yr9_FirstWorldWar_2.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/6inch30cwtHowitzerLandingGallipoli.jpg

 

In this YouTube film clip, a BL 6 inch Naval Gun is fired. This time from behind, as a comparison to the weapon

in the first photo. But of course I'm not sure whether that's the case with ANZAC, Suvla or Helles.(at: 2:56 min.)

Original Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK2Xn1rY8kQ

 

If we take a closer look and compare the gun breech in the film clip above and with the photo below, it becomes

clear that several guns of this type were proven to have been used in the battles for the Dardanelles in 1915.

 

The Ottoman ironclad “Mesudiye“ were equiped after the Reconstruction 1899-1904 with twelve Vickers BL-6 inch

Naval-Guns as part of the main armament. On the morning of December 13, 1914, the “Mesudiye” was torpedoed

by the British submarine B11 inside the Dardanelle entrance and sank in shallow waters near Sarısığlar. The guns

could then be recovered and parts installed in the Dardanelles fortifications on their original center pivot mounts.

Original Sources:

Turkish Artillery in the Battles of the Dardanelles, PART 1, https://www.dby.com.tr/bogazin-fedaileri-2-kitap

British 6"/45 (15.2 cm) BL Mark VII http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_6-45_mk7_breech_pic.jpg

 

Regards Holger

Edited 13 February by Holger Kotthaus

[Holger Kotthaus]

Let´s try to go ahead with further search for the origin and location of this 'Captured British gun' . . .

 

Regarding the further use of BL 6 inch Naval-Guns of the Ottoman ironclad “Mesudiye”, Turkish sources state the following:

The starboard battery of the "Mesudiye" with six BL-6 inch Naval-Guns, was completely removed.

 

Three guns were installed on the Asian coast as the “Mesudiye-Battery” / “Anadolu Mesudiye Bataryası“ for the Intermediate

Defence. (Although British and German maps and descriptions change quite significantly for the periods 1914-15 and 1915-18)

(This already pictured photo was from this Asiatic “Mesudiye-Battery”):

https://content.invisioncic.com/r224821/monthly_2024_02/TurkishBL6-inchNaval-GunBLoncentral-pivotmount.png.07a34dee4bdc1ccf7f2edc5b587c58cb.png

 

 

Three guns were also permanently installed opposite on the European side of the Dardanelles and called “Baykuş-Battery”

(“Beikusch-Batterie”), named after the hill of the same name above the battery. But since all six guns come from the same ship,

the “Mesudiye”, also the name “Rumeli-Mesudiye-Bataryası ” was used within Turkish sources for this Gun Fortification.

 

Even before the "Mesudiye" was torpedoed on 13. December 1914, it had been anchored as a floating battery in the Sarısığlar bay

in only 10 meters deep water. What became of the six BL-6 inch naval guns the port battery, could not be determined so far.

At least here the possibility of recovery and subsequent use on land remains.

 

Quite a good compilation with lots of photos, `Mesudiye Zırhlısı´ (Ironclad “Mesudiye“):

https://canakkalemuharebeleri1915.com/makale-ler/okan-kozanoglu/427-mesudiye-zirhlisi

 

Regards Holger

Edited 18 February by Holger Kotthaus

[Holger Kotthaus]

Again briefly back to the location of the gun on the photo which was mentioned in the turkish source.

(Captured british 15,2-cm L/44,7 Mk VII naval gun at Gallipoli)

https://content.invisioncic.com/r224821/monthly_2024_02/CapturedbritishBL6-inch(152-cm)L447MkVIInavalgunatGalipoli.png.f6dcf80ef7e6de7b7d90b48c1bc82260.png

“ . . . .Since the cannon placed in the Tekeburnu Battery faces the Aegean Sea rather than the

Bosphorus, it is very likely that this cannon is one 150-gun cannon in the Tekeburnu Battery.

 

The location `Teke Burnu´ is at about, identical to `W-Beach´, which was occupied by Entente from 04/1915 to 01/1916.

Therefore the photo can only have been taken between 12/1915 - 03/1915 or 02/1916 - 12/1918.

(Of course, only under the aspect that there are no Turkish prisoners in the photo and the origin of the wheel mount is ignored.)

 

If the text is correct, the following photo would confirm the position given by the Turkish source at `Teke Burnu´, as other positions

around the Dardanelles would be completely outside the maximum range of this gun type. Visible details really suggest a BL 6“

naval gun. Most likely on a Navy center pivot due to low ground height; - but not a sleigh with wheels, like in the photo above.

 

“TURKISH 6“ GUN USED FOR SHELLING IMBROS“

Original Source: https://blog.maryevans.com/2013/04/on-anzac-day-australian-sailors-visiting-gallipoli-battlefields-c1920.html

 

However, it sounds a bit unbelievable to me that Imbros was ever shot at with this 6" naval gun. Even the port bay, in the southeast

corner of the island is more than 20 km away from 'Teke Burnu' and therefore actually out of range of this type of gun!?

(6"/45 (15.2 cm) BL Mark VII with Special charge: 17,870 yards (16,340 m) by 20 degrees on Naval Central Pivot)

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_6-45_mk7.php

 

Will be continued . . .

Regards Holger

Edited 23 February by Holger Kotthaus

[Holger Kotthaus]

To narrow the search by exclusion procedure, a list of heavy Entente guns with a caliber greater

than 10.5 cm / 4.1“, which were used in Gallipoli and show the clear differences to the above photo.

 

British 12,0 cm (4,7“) QF L/40, Naval Gun on wheel carriage, M1889/1891

Photo: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/H04000

The gun barrel and breech of the 4.7" at Gallipoli had a very similar shape to the 6" Naval Gun, but was proportionally smaller.

The decisive factor, however, is that carriage and wheels of the 4.7" gun used at Gallipoli were very different from the 6" version.

 

British BL 12,7 cm (5“/ 60 lb) L/33,6 Field Gun, M19

Photo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Battle_of_Krithia#/media/File:60_pounder_Cape_Helles_June_1915.jpg

This famous photo shows the operation at Cape Helles 1915. This MK I version had only wooden spokes, a shorter barrel and

striking recoil dampers over the barrel. Only the MK II version in 1918 had the same grooved-profile-rims as the 6" Naval Gun.

 

British BL 15,24 cm (6“ / 30 ctw) L/15,6 Field Howitzer, M1897

Photo: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1232145

Same caliber like the 6" Naval Gun but significantly smaller gun with a shorter gun barrel and wooden spoke wheels.

 

French 15,5 cm `de Bange´ Field Gun, Model 1877/ 14 (?)

Photo: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C385446

https://www.alamy.de/landung-einer-155-mm-kanone-in-sedd-el-bahr-auf-der-halbinsel-gallipoli-wahrend-der-dardanelles-kampagne-image449597659.html

Smaller gun with a very different carriage, gun-barrel profile, wooden spoke wheels and the gun breech opening is swiveled to the left.

 

French 24 cm Coastal Gun L/22 Model 1876 Typ G on Central Pivot type Tarbes

Photo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_24_C_mod%C3%A8le_1876#/media/File:French_heavy_gun_firing_at_Gallipoli_IWM_Q_13604.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_24_C_mod%C3%A8le_1876#/media/File:Captured_24_cm_artillery.jpg

Neither the caliber, the carriage, nor the length of the gun barrel allow it to be confused with the 6" Naval Gun.

 

 

Further guns which size, appearance and caliber in the scheme, but whose Gallipoli use is not proven

 

British BL 20,3 cm (8“) L/15,66 Field Howitzer Mk I 

Photo: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0MIc6ApsIWs/maxresdefault.jpg -

https://i0.wp.com/www.militaer-wissen.de/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/BL-8-Zoll-Haubitze-Mk-I-V.jpg?resize=768%2C602&ssl=1

“Conversion to 8 inch (203 mm) howitzer In World War I Britain urgently needed heavy artillery on the Western Front, and various

obsolete 6-inch naval guns were converted to 8-inch howitzers. Sixty-three QF 6-inch Mk II guns were shortened, bored out to 8 inches

(203 mm) and converted to BL type to produce the BL 8-inch howitzer Mk V.  Four entered service in December 1915 and 59 followed in 1916.“

Except for the length and caliber of the gun barrel, completely identical construction to the 6" Navy Gun. Was only introduced after Gallipoli.

 

Russian `Canet´ 15,2 cm (6“) L/45 Navy Gun, Model 1892

Photo: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Artillery_battery_152mm_Canet_gun_Open_wood_platform.jpg

Very similar constructed naval gun like the 6“ Vickers, which was also used for coastal defense, although unlikely at Gallipoli.

 

French `Schneider´ 14 cm (13,86 cm / 5.46") L/55 Navy Gun, Model 1877/1910

Photo: http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-5961-0-60524000-1386602668.jpg

Very rare construction; - only 12 pieces with land carriage were produced; - Use at Galipoli theoretically possible, but unlikely.

(This is NOT a French St. Chamond 15,5 cm (6,10“) L/47,5 Navy Gun on wheel carriage, Model 1916)

 

In the different gun versions listed above as “candidates” for the top photo, one factor was not taken into account: the wheel

mounts, which are identical on the 6-inch naval gun and the 8-inch howitzer, except for the position of the two recoil brakes.

Original Source: https://picryl.com/media/artillerie-salonique-bebbb6

 

“A Naval Battery also served in the theatre for some time from January 1916 equipped with one 6” Mk 7 and two 4” naval guns

from the Alexandria and Mudros defences“. https://salonikacampaignsociety.org.uk/bsf/army-headquarters/royal-garrison-artillery/

Regards Holger

Edited 25 February by Holger Kotthaus

[Holger Kotthaus]

Some more background results on text information of the photo

 

I. SHELLING OF THE IMBROS ISLAND

The shelling of Imbros was mentioned in an previously article. Also the exclusion of 'our' 6" Naval Gun on wheel carriage due to lack of range.

However, there was a land-based Turkish naval gun which had the necessary range of just over 20 km and shelled the southeastern port of

Kephalo on the island by indirect fire in 1918.

 

www.navyweps.com states a maximum range of 16,3 km for the 21 cm L/40, with a 30° barrel elevation. For the longer L/45 version, 26,4 km

by 45° is given as a Maximum Range on Coastal Carriage. So it could be assume that the shorter L/40 version achieved 22 to 23 km with 45°

 

This single gun 21 cm Q.F. L/40 Krupp Navy Gun C/01 was installed in a concrete bed 1,500 m east of Tekke Burnu. But I do not know reports

Or results of these bombardments. There is information that this was not an original Roon-Gun barrel, but one of the seven replacements barrels

Original Sources: CONFIDENTIAL Report of the committee appointed to investigate the attacks delivered on and the enemy

defences of the Dardanelles straits, in 1919, Admiralty Naval Staff, Gunnery Disvision April 1921 (so called: "Mitchell Report")

 

A further well known picture: https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/photo/ottoman-naval-gun

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roon_(Schiff,_1906)#/media/Datei:Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-R36225,_T%C3%BCrkei,_Dardanellen,_Schweres_Gesch%C3%BCtz.jpg

 

Additionally background: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_827-40_skc95.php

https://en.topwar.ru/109792-zheleznodorozhnoe-orudie-21-cm-sk-peter-adalbert-germaniya.html

 

Will be continued . . .

Regards Holger

Edited 29 February by Holger Kotthaus

[Holger Kotthaus]

In order to currently complete the background results for the text information of the first photo:

 

II. THE ARTILLERY POSITION `TEKKE BURNU´

 

This fortress at the westernmost end of the Dardanelles Peninsula, northwest of Cape Helles, was part of the “Outer Defense Zone”,

Group I, on the European side. Here too, the equipment of the fortifications, like the entire Turkish defense at the Dardanelles, can be

divided into two time phases; - Before landing at the three zones; - in April 1915 and after the evacuation from January 1916 onwards.

 

The construction of this at “Cape Tekke” positioned, and “Tekke Burnu” named battery , took place towards the End of the 80s of the

19th Century. Four 12-cm Krupp M.1892 field howitzers on the usual wheeled carriage were provided as mobile battery. This secondary

position was intended as right flank protection for the heavy “Cape Helles“ Battery and was only protected by earth embankments.

 

 

“The Turkish Army bought 72 pieces of these slow firing Krupp 12 cm M.1892 field howitzers.“

https://www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bulgarian%20Artillery%201/Krupp%20120mm%201892_Hb_Turkey.htm

 

(Today's aerial photographs of course show changes after WWI and WWII. Tekke Burnu was occupied by the Turkish military until 2000.)

Source: https://www.google.com/maps/search/Tekke+Burnu+%2FTekke+Koyu/@40.0539649,26.1678805,601m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en-US&entry=ttu

 

Further detailed aerial photos from Teke Burnu / W-Beach area:

https://canakkalemuharebeleri1915.com/genel/muharebe-alani-yer-isimleri/seddulbahir/257-karacaoglan-tepesi-hill-114

 

In the first attacks of the Allied Navy from 3. November 1914 this howitzer battery played no role, probably also due to its short range

of maximum 5,000 m. Whether this position was even hit in the further bombardments is not certain. Remains appear to have been

destroyed by the 1.Battalion of the Lancashire Fusiliers in the course of the conquest of W-Beach. What happened to the remaining

old Turkish Howitzers is also unknown. https://www.lancs-fusiliers.co.uk/gallerynew/WW1/Gallopoli%20ww1/gallipoli.htm

 

Original Source: https://canakkalemuharebeleri1915.com/images/yucelozkorucu/yazilar/karamuharebelerihazirliklar4/received_10153257190039286.jpeg

 

After the very orderly withdrawal of the Allied units at the beginning of January 1916, the terrain at Cape Helles was occupied again

by the Turkish troops. Already in February 1916, after a visit by a Turkish-German artillery commission, a fundamental reinforcement

and renovation of the bastions was decided. This also included the installation of more modern 15-cm Q.F. Guns on Central Naval Mount.

 

 

European site (Group I)

“Tekke Burnu-Battery“ (No.4), One 15 cm S.K. L/40 Krupp on 15 cm M.P.L. C/1898

“Cape Helles-Battery“ (No.5), Two 15 cm S.K.L/40 Krupp on 15 cm M.P.L. C/1898

 

Asiatic site (Group II)

“Orkanieh-Battery“ (No.56), Two 15 cm S.K. L/45 Krupp on 15 cm M.P.L. C/1906 (From “SMS Goeben“)

“Yeni Shehr-Battery“ (No.57), One 15 cm S.K. L/40 Krupp on 15 cm M.P.L. C/(?)

“Su Bashi-Battery“ (No.58), Two 15 cm S.K. L/40 Krupp on 15 cm M.P.L. C/(?)

 

According to the documents in the MItchel Report, the two 15 cm gun models at “Cape Helles-Battery” are the same model as

the 15 cm gun at “Tekke Burnu-Battery”. When comparing the first photo in this thread, it is clear that these are different guns.

 

For further comparison, the 15 cm S.K. L/40 Krupp gun of the “Yeni Shehr Battery” (No.57) https://digital.onb.ac.at/rep/access/preview/10FB6C3B

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/15_cm.lg.40_K%C3%BCstenkanone_b.Yenishebir._%28BildID_15546493%29.jpg/1280px-15_cm.lg.40_K%C3%BCstenkanone_b.Yenishebir._%28BildID_15546493%29.jpg

 

There is evidence that the 15 cm S.K. by “Helles” and “Tekke Burnu-Battery” came into action on 26. January 1918 to defend the “SMS Goeben”

against the attacks from British torpedo boat destroyers.

 

Anyway; - The background, location and origin of the BL 6-inch Naval Gun (!?) on the top photo remains unresolved.

•   BL 6" Naval Gun on wheel mount
•            Photo taken near the beach on the coast
•           Turkish officers and crews are visible

Maybe the photo is from another time, in another place?

Could it be that the photo was taken after the 1st WW?

Like Smyrna during the Turkish War of Independence?

 

Any further idea will be wormly welcome

Regards Holger

Edited 9 March by Holger Kotthaus