Australian cameliers expedition to Mount Sinai

[Eran Tearosh]

Australian cameliers expedition to Mount Sinai

Going through the book 'With the Cameliers in Palestine', by John Robertson (N.Z. camelier of the 15 company I.C.C), I found a reference to an Australian cameliers expedition (50 people strong) to Mount Sinai. He mentioned that it happened in early 1917 but without dates. As Robertson's company was in early 1917 a part of the 1^st Battalion I.C.C., I guess that the Australian party might have been from that battalion.

So far, I found nothing else about this raid/expedition. Anyone?

Eran

[stevenbecker]

Eran,

While aware of this party, it was but one of a number of Trips undertaken by units of the Camel Bde out into the Sinai

The one mentioned by Robertson was not done by the 15th Company, Robertson only said a party of 50 men went there.

15-2-17  operation to Nekhl from Serapeum by LtCol Grant's 11 LHR (420 men) + part 124 FAmb (26 men) + Wireless pack Sect with Capt Stirling Gen Staff & Lt Stuart Intell officer along with 9Co (60 men) from Shallufa return 22-2-17

what he write before this is 

16-2-17  Hassana operation by Maj Bassett's 2Bn ICC (5Co 6Co 7Co) + sect 14Co + sect HK&SMB + Scottish FAmb & half Troop of 2/1 Cheshire Field Troop RE att Maj Greenwood & Lt Herbert (DMC Intell) to Hassana *captured 3 officers & 20 men rtn  21-2-17

19-2-17   reported first man to be evac by air when the wounded Pte W MacGregor was flown out by BE 2c (4442) 14 Sqn RFC Capt Dempsey/Lt Cullen after being shot WIA 18-2-17 during operation at Hassana by Maj Bassett 2Bn

So I take it he maybe talking about before the Hassana Operation that leaves only the Nekhl operation?

The 15th Company moved from the 1st Camel Bn to the 3rd Camel Bn after the 1st Gaza battle

The next few operations into Sinai happen mid 1917 but I am unsure if Robertson means these?

PS

I have heard of either this trip or another, where Aussie Cameliers went there, but I will need time to find who mentions this trip I know some well known Aussie officers went, I can't think weather it was Hogue or another?

Edited 29 January by stevenbecker

[Eran Tearosh]

Hi Steve,

I guessed you'd be the first one to respond, but this was really fast...

I'm fully aware of all these operations on the borders of Sinai, but I'm concentrating on this specific expedition to Mount Sinai itself in early 1917. As Robertson was a New Zealander, and he specifically wrote about Australians, it's of course not something that involved the 15th Company. My thoughts are that either he read something about this later on or that he knew about it from within his battalion. I found nothing about it in the War Diaries I've gone through. 

While Robertson was reporting the other raids and actions - about the Mount Sinai expedition, he is more 'telling a story'. Bear in mind his educational background as a teacher and that this book was written many years after the war. He included in the text a reference to something that happened in the 1930's. 

Yes, you're right - I know of at least one more Australian officer's visit to Saint Catherine's Monastery.       https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1004637

Thanks! 

Eran

Edited 29 January by Eran Tearosh

[stevenbecker]

Yes, Langley write (page 79-80) a party of 50 men under Maj Oliver Hogue sent to Mt Sinai itself to disarm bedouins and collect firearms. This became known as the Pilgrim's Patrol.

The party followed in the steps of Moses when he set forth into the wilderness.

The party included the Bimbashi and Officers of the Sinai Mining Company which was a big manganese proposition. Their buildings and equipt had been burnt and wrecked by the Turks.

There journey to Tor via the route to Mecca to the Monastry of St Catherine".

And goes on with a detailed look at the trip if you want to read in in "Sand Sweat and Camels"

Of cause he does not give a date

But records show he was Maj and OC of No 3 Company (1 Bn) and the Tor experdition was in Dec 1917

The patrol was but one of many under taken into Sinai including to Akabar to meet TEL when the 1st Camel Bn was resting and recovering back on the Cannal after 2nd Gaza.

14-12-17   patrol to Tor from 3Co 1Bn ICC under Capt Hogue (3 officers 46 men) with Maj Schrieber Egyptian State Telegraph from Ayun Musa via Abu Zenima to Tor arrived 22-12-17 returned arrived back at Ayun Musa 2-1-18 with Maj Schrieber injuried in camel fall

PS.

Mate yes the photo while saying 14 LHR was before that. 

Lt Cox and Gowland were in Hogue's 3rd Company in Dec and in the 14th ALHR.

a funny thing is Cox is shown transfering to No 1 Company on the 11 Dec 1917, but still appears on the Sinai operation to Tor with No 3 Company

So I lean to not believe dates given in records and use as a guide

Edited 29 January by stevenbecker

[Eran Tearosh]

Hi Steve

So far I never had a chance to put my hands on a copy of "Sand Sweat and Camels". When was it first published? The question is did Robertson copy from Langley or the other way around (The text seems to be similar - Could you kindly scan or photo these 2 pages and PM them to me?)

I guess you might be right that there was only one Australian expedition to Mount Sinai, which means it would be late 1917 (By the date of the photo) and not early 1917, as Robertson wrote. However, this point is not solid - One or two visits to Saint Catherine's Monastery. 

Thanks!

Eran

 

[stevenbecker]

Eran,

Langley only records one visit as it was well away from the normal routes into the then Palestine

Yes my copy is a photo copy of a Library book published by Lowden Publishing Co Kilmore of Victoria dated 1976

George had died in 1971 so his wife finished the book ISBN 0 909706 51 4

He does go on a bit, so I am unsure if he wrote most of it, or his wife?

I am not real good at this but here goes

 

 

ICC SS&C20240131_06381434.pdf ICC SS&C page80 20240131_06404007.pdf ICC SS&C page8120240131_06432712.pdf ICC SS&C page8220240131_06464254.pdf

Edited 30 January by stevenbecker

[Fedelmar]

There could be a clue here ...

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1338642

[Eran Tearosh]

Steve and Fedelmar - Many thanks!

Steve, I decided to try a different angle after reading what you sent (Don't worry, you're good at it!...). To cut a long story short, first I tried searching the AWM collections using different keywords: Mount Sinai, Jebel Musa, Saint Catherine's Monastery, etc'. I found only three photos that are somehow connected. I started to question whether the date mentioned in the photo I referred to earlier - December 1917 - is correct (There are about a dozen other photos, probably from a later British visit).

Then I decided to concentrate on Major Oliver Hogue (Trooper Bluegum). It took time, but eventually, I struck gold. Hogue published his book The Camiliers in 1919 (Available online). There is no index and a different way of writing, but I patiently browsed through and found that an entire chapter, XV (Pages 131-141), is dedicated to the Pilgrims Patrol. No dates, but it's right after the Second Battle of Gaza, and it lasted three weeks. 

Fedelmar: I tried the ICC war diaries before, and just gave it a second chance. No luck so far. 

Eran

Edited 31 January by Eran Tearosh

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

I am sure Hogue would have done more, but his untimely death from the dreaded logue in 1919 put pay to that.

I've not collected his works, as I did't like his style of writing during the war (loose lips) where he didn't give much away.

[stevenbecker]

I was going threw my ICC patrols but still can't find any other patrols

During 1916 the ICC under took many patrols into Sinai, but all these were in Northern Sinai until Feb 1917 for the patrol mentioned.

Things stayed there until after 2nd Gaza when operations into Southern Sinai started

22-5-17   Operation to Nekhl 1Bn ICC by Maj Mills (parts 2Co 3Co 4Co) moved from Serapeum

26-5-17   Maj Mills force arrived Nekhl destroyed wells returned by 1-6-17

20-9-17   patrols out to Goz Mabruk (Mabaouk)

7-10-17   Akaba Survey party - Part 2Co on patrol of 1Bn ICC under Maj Mills and Lt Gull (Intell officer) with Maj Schieber Egyptian State Telegraph Survey party (3 officers 41 men 64 camels) along the Pilgrim route to Akaba taking seven days to get there.

17-10-17   Akaba Survey party part 2Co under Maj Mills at Akaba meet TEL just return from raid on Maan

Dec 1917 already mentioned

Thats all that is recorded in ICC records during 1917 and ,ost by the 1st Camel Bn

Eren,

I thought the trip to Akaba above maybe the other, as they used the Pilgrim's trail?

But I am unsure if they did go to St Cath's

 

Edited 2 February by stevenbecker

[Eran Tearosh]

Steve,

Absolutely not! The Sinai Islamic Pilgrims Trail (Darb el-Hajj), naturally, crosses Sinai from the west to the east, avoiding entry to the high mountains further south and heads directly towards Akaba, before continuing towards Mecca & Medinah. Coming from the north, from the direction of Rafa, the traveler will tap Darb el-Hajj at Nekhel and turn east. 

_______________________________________________________

Regarding the visit/s to Saint Catherina's Monastery, so far we only assumed there were two, but wait till the end... 

One definite visit is The Pilgrims Patrol - We still don't know exactly when it was, but from both Hogue & Robertson it seems it was sometime in early 1917, probably just after Gaza II.

Of the various photos of Saint Catherina's Monastery in AWM collections, only this one (https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1004637), with officers Hogue, Cox & Gowland, is dated, December 25th, 1917. As we know, the I.C.C. was far north at that time, so I assume that this date is simply wrong. 

The caption of this undated photo (https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1012218) quotes Australian members of the Imperial Camel Corps bivouacking outside the monastery of St Catherine at the foot of Mount Sinai. Langley uses this photo (Opposite p. 81) and writes: "...The men and the camels can be seen in the left foreground". Sorry, I'm missing what he saw...

One more photo I found that's connected to The Pilgrims Patrol is this: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1004635. It's dated December 1917, but, as I mentioned above, I don't think that's possible. The description of this photo: The 1st Anzac Battalion of the Imperial Camel Corps, in command of Captain Oliver (Trooper Bluegum) Houge, on their way to Tor (near Suez), where the small garrison at the valuable manganese mines required strengthening against the threat of attack by restless tribes. This fits perfectly with Hogue's detailed chapter I mentioned before. This also rolls out that The Pilgrims Patrol took place in December 1917 - we find in his book references to his whereabouts in later 1917, much further north. 

Based on Houge's book and these photos, I can draw a rough map of their route, including several sites not mentioned by name, but knowing the ground, I understand where they passed (Man, I haven't been to these places for over 40 years!!). 

________________________________

Now, back to my in-depth search through the AWM collections, using several relevant keywords. There are quite a few photos, however, the catalog reference of the three photos mentioned above starts with the letters C or A. All the others start with the letter H. In some of these photos, we see a few people, dressed in civilian clothes, and wearing English-style hats. Hoping to find a clue in that H series, I finally found this (https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C58458): The campsite in Wadi Hebron of the party led by Mr. W.M.T. Ellis, a journalist with the 'New York Herald', on one of the stops during a journey through the Sinai to the area of Mount Sinai.

So, that's probably our second expedition, although it seems they were at Mount Sinai and St. Catherine's Monastery only in 1919 (maybe arriving in late 1918). 

A. So far, found nothing else about that journey. 

B. Maybe the letter H can turn out to be a key to solving this?

C. Why are two of the Australian photos dated 'December 1917' when they definitely can't be from that month? 

 

Classic case of making a whole story out of almost nothing...

 

Eran

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

   

[stevenbecker]

Sorry Eran,

Are you saying the date "when they definitely can't be from that month?" is incorrect?

Mate all ICC records do show the 3rd Company under Hogue under took this trip in Dec 1917, there is no record of any earlier patrols to that far south, other then the two trips to Nekhl during Mid 1917 to attack and later destroy the wells but that is far away from St Cath's.

As you conclude any other trips must have been made in 1918 or 1919 when it was safer to do it.

Ellis is not mentioned in ICC documents, so he was not with them, as far as I am aware?

Cheers

PS

I don't think Robertson is remembering correctly, as you say he wrote that book some years after the war, and unlike Langley, who would of had first hand knowage of the Trip Robertson just got it wrong.

NO Trips were under taken late 1916 or early 1917 down that far south, at lest not by any ICC company

Edited 3 February by stevenbecker

[Eran Tearosh]

Steve

I understand from what you wrote that there are I.C.C. reports (War Diaries?) showing this patrol during December 1917. Of course, I can't argue with a War Diary, but if it's coming from a different source, let me put forward a few thoughts.

Although written in an 'unusual' way, Hogue's The Cameliers combines chapters giving a chronological account with other chapters, based on anecdotes. The Mount Sinai's Pilgrims Patrol is described in chapter XV, right after Gaza II (Chapter XIV). The next chronological chapter (XVII) describes their activities in the area of Wadi Abiad, a sector of the Gaza-Beersheba front line, long before the flanking movement towards Beersheba. In Houge's case, things were written in 'real-time' by the person on the ground (unlike Langley and Robertson), so I'm tempted to trust his judgment regarding where he located the chapter telling the story of The Pilgrims Patrol…

Furthermore: We know the tough period of fighting of the E.E.F. during November-December 1917, and we know how involved the I.C.C. was in that offensive. It simply doesn't make sense that that group was in the area of Suez at that time (December 1917) and was engaged in a patrol aimed at showing the local Beduins that the British Empire was now boss. That's exactly what I would expect to be done during the long stalemate between Gaza II and Gaza III.

Two more points – I've been to that area a few times, although when I was much younger. The winter night temperatures there…  And, according to the date on that photo, they were at St. Catherina's Monastery on Christmas Day! A talented writer like Hogue wouldn't skip that special date and the freezing temperatures…

Anyway, if your I.C.C. reports are from War Diaries – Everything I wrote is bull… Otherwise, please consider someone dated things wrong here…  

Eran

 

P.S.

It seems that Ellis was a civilian and had nothing to do with the I.C.C.

Edited 3 February by Eran Tearosh

[stevenbecker]

Eran,

Hogue was not in the 3rd Gaza/Beersheba battles as the 1st Camel Bn was still back on the cannal

After 2nd Gaza the 1st Bn was replaced by the 4th Bn and moved to the Cannal to rest and recover.

To fill in time Langley had the 1st Bn untook a number of long patrols to keep the men fit, 

Now the 4Bn did have Hogue in the 18th Company, but he became OC 3rd Company (1Bn) in May 1917 and so left the Gaza front

So any details he gives is second hand as he was not in these but back on the Cannal.

[Eran Tearosh]

Steve,

Please help me out. Your records show that the patrol to Tor (Better known as at-Tur) and Mount Sinai commenced on 14/12/17. According to details from all three sources (Hogue, Langley & Robertson),  I understand it lasted for three weeks, and after Tor, they entered the High Mountains from the direction of Tor (Still have to try to work out via which wadi), and after the visit to St. Catherine's Monastery, they made their way north through the Wilderness (Tiyaha Desert) towards Rafa. 

Are your records based on the War Diaries? There's still that contradiction between the dates that we can assume from Hogue's report (April-May 1917) to your records. 

You wrote: "After 2nd Gaza the 1st Bn was replaced by the 4th Bn and moved to the Canal to rest and recover" and "To fill in time Langley had the 1st Bn undertook a number of long patrols to keep the men fit". This puts everything right for the Pilgrims Patrol to take place sometime after Gaza II. 

You also wrote: "Hogue was not in the 3rd Gaza/Beersheba battles as the 1st Camel Bn was still back on the canal". Yes, I know the 1st Battalion was sent back (Hogue refers to that on p. 176) but in chapter XVII (pages 151-161) he describes personal participation at Wadi Abiad, and by his chronological order, that happens after The Pilgrims Patrol, but before moving back to the canal.

Of course, It is possible that Hogue simply got The Pilgrims Patrol in the wrong place in his book as far as his chronological order (but that seems a bit unlikely)... 

So, I'm confused. Your records say December, but other details suggest April-May. Help!...

Eran

Edited 3 February by Eran Tearosh

[stevenbecker]

Eran,

Sorry mate I don't have that book, so its hard to say what and how Hogue is writing about his Trip.

The facts are based on ICC records (Yes War D) not accounts by H.

Officaly

14-12-17   patrol to Tor from 3Co 1Bn ICC under Capt Hogue (3 officers 46 men) with Maj Schrieber Egyptian State Telegraph from Ayun Musa via Abu Zenima to Tor arrived 22-12-17 returned arrived back at Ayun Musa 2-1-18 with Maj Schrieber injuried in camel fall

Its clear the patrol was in Dec 1917, not at any other time no matter how the two writers show it in their books.

If another patrol went there, none has shown up by the ICC ?

Since Hogue took command of No 3 Company around June 1917, then any earlier is out of the question by him

From the combined war daries and other sources an outline of what the ICC was doing between May 1917 to Jan 1918

May 1917

 

1-5-17      9Co (Capt Day OC Lt Brothers (2ic) Lt Gowlett & Strickland)

1/2-5-17  Comp Co (2Co & 3Co) under Capt Campbell (4 officers 152 men 191 camels) to El Arish then Auja and to Ferry Post by 16-5-17

4-5-17     1Bn HQ + 1Co return to Canal

7-5-17     1Co replaced 4Bn ICC around Seraphum on the Canal

9-5-17     4Co (4 officers 132 men 4 natives 156 camels) returned to Canal arrived Ferry Post 11-5-17

13-5-17   4Bn HQ under LtCol Lee with 18Co (10 officers 185 men 260 camels) arrive at ICC Bde

13-5-17   2Co (2 officers 89 men 4 natives 116 camels)

14-5-17   17Co (5 officer 134 men 184 camels) arrive at ICC Bde & Lt Lamb replaced Capt Tolmer OC 14Co

15-5-17   16Co (6 officers 156 men 207 camels) arrive at ICC Bde

19-5-17   ICC Bde escorted by Imperial MD moved to Rafa for the Auja Raid along with Asluj Raid by Anzac MD arrived 21-5-17

21-5-17   began demo of rail line around Auja Station and bridges over the Wadi Husaniya & Wadi Abiab

22-5-17   Operation to Nekhl 1Bn ICC by Maj Mills (parts 2Co 3Co 4Co) moved from Serapeum

22-5-17   Survey party with Lt Cashman's escorts moved to an area around Giddi

23-5-17   Sgt Norm Buchanan prom 2/Lt 11Co moved to CTU Abbasia

24-5-17   ICC Bde arrived back at Rafa from raid and returned to line around Tel el Jemmi

26-5-17   8Co left Sollum for Kantara 10Co at Dahkla moved to replace them at Sollum

26-5-17   Maj Mills force arrived Nekhl destroyed wells returned by 1-6-17

29-5-17   Capt Hogue replaced Capt Naylor 3Co killed at 2nd Gaza

 June 1917

 reported 10Co moved to Sollum via Kharga Oasis and Alamein then patrols to Siwa

3-6-17   11Co (6 officers 148 men 4 natives 190 camels)

5-6-17   3Bn ICC bombed by aircraft reported 30 or (3) killed and 18 wounded with 38 camels and 3 horses killed at El Shauta

5-6-17    2/Lt Ranclaud returned 1Co & Lt Bickford to T/Adjt HQ/3Bn

5-6-17    2Co moved to Kubri - Ayun Musa to repace 13Co arrived 9-6-17

9-6-17    Carried out a mock attack on El Fukhari Ridge for French Inspector General Bailloud who presented medals to ICC Bde

12-6-17  Maj Buxton OC HQ & Admin  arrived for inspection of 1Bn  at Ferry Post

16-6-17   13Co arrived ICC Bde (6 officers 153 men 217 camels) + 1 sect 17Co (20 men 32 camels)

16-6-17   New OC's 15Co Capt Davis and Capt Yerex 16Co arrived at ICC Bde

20-6-17   2/Lt Gowland arrived 3Co -

21-6-17   2/Lt Willats from QM HQ/3Bn moved to 13Co & 2/Lt Wilks arrived 5Co and 2/Lt Ditton Bde HQ

24-6-17   2/Lt Colley and Wallbank arrived at Bde HQ attach 10Co

25-6-17   Escort to Giddi retuned

28-6-17   3Co depart Ferry Post for Kubri

July 1917

 7-17      2/Lt Finlay 11Co to AFC

1-7-17    2/Lt Bate arrived 1Co 2-7-17 while 2/Lt Gull arrived 2Co & 2/Lt Buchanan moved from 11Co to 3Co 3-7-17

8-7-17    4Bn ICC to beach for week near Rafa rtn 17-7-17

15-7-17   2/Lt Sanderson arrived 3Co & Capt Davis took command OC 15Co at Sheikh Nuran 16-7-17

16-7-17   Capt Norries T/Adjt HQ/4Bn return 12Co 6-10-17

 Aug 1917

 2-8-17    Capt Hemphill Adjt HQ/3Bn to Maj 2ic 4Bn HQ

6-8-17    2/Lt Sanderson moved to 17Co then to 18Co 12-8-17

10-8-17   2/Lt Mason arrived 14Co

11-8-17   reported 2Bn ICC group under LtCol Gardner (5Co 6Co 7Co 9Co) (26 officers 537 men) raid on the Sena Redoubt (raiding force 26 officers 432 men) + part 4Bn ICC under LtCol Lee to support (lost 1 KIA & 2 WIA)

18-8-17   ACFA left to ICC Bde (5 officers 73 men)  + (Maj Arnold and 2 officers 5 men) left 14-8-17

20-8-17   shown 15Co moved from 3Bn to 4Bn changed with 13Co

22-8-17   2/Lt Lees arrived 4Co

23-8-17   2/Lt Gull Intell officer 1Bn HQ

30-8-17   CSM Maitland prom 2/Lt 17Co - and shown formed Camel Bde Ammo Column (1 British officer and Vet/Sgt) 15 Indian ORs and 59 Egyptian Camel Drivers (16 riding and 110 baggage camels)

 Sept 1917

 Some time in late 1917 the 26 MG Sqn was renamed 265 MG Co (said to renamed back 26 MG Sqn again in April 1918?

1-2-17   ACFAmb  (7 officers 78 men)

2-9-17   2Bn ICC to Gamli to dig comms cable rtn to ICC Bde at Nuran 4-9-17

2-9-17   Capt Goldenstedt repaced Capt Campbell OC 2Co when he moved to ICC Bde HQ for staff training, Lt Smyth Sig Officer 1Bn replaced Goldenstedt as Adjt

5-9-17   ICC Bde sports meeting won by 2Bn ICC

8-9-17   ?Co 4Bn ICC on patrol Goz Mabruk (Mabaouk) and Zakhleilat

10-9-17   2/Lt Stanton arrived 18Co and Lt Moore to Intell Officer HQ/3Bn

13-9-17   2Bn ICC to beach for week at Rafa

14-9-17   5Co moved to El Arish to relieve 8Co & 15Co moved to patrol duty from Tel el Fara

18-9-17   3Bn ICC took over works at El Zaabi and A/Adjt Lt Conrick to Adjt - Lt Davidson 12Co to Res Co

20-9-17   8Co under Capt Paterson (6 officers 157 men) moved to ICC Bde

20-9-17   patrols out to Goz Mabruk (Mabaouk)

21-9-17   6Co left Kantara to relieve 10Co at Sollum (4 officers 165 men)

29-9-17  10Co (part) under Capt Wilkinson (4 officers 119 men) arrived at ICC Bde possibly (Bailey 2ic - Lyall - Redloff - Tyrrell - Heath)

30-9-17   post at Goz Lakhleilat by 2Bn ICC

 Oct 1917

reported (90 men) mixed force under Col Newcombe with part (70 men) under Capt Bunbury from 5Co ICC & 16 men from 21Bn London Regt (60th Div) & 1 officer & 5 men from 20th MGS + arab scouts/guides

 1-10-17   HK&SMB with Cml Bde at Sheik Nuran

2-10-17   Lt Lamb replaced by Capt Ranclaud OC 14Co & 2/Lt Maitland arrived 14Co 3-10-17

4-10-17   2/Lt Nield arrived 2Co & 4Bn ICC took over defences at Ghabi works/redoubt - shown ICC Bde with 265 MG Co in Ghabi works *redoubt & started operations to improve water points between Gaza to Beersheba & Lt Norm Buchanan moved from 3Co to 11Co

4-10-17    Capt Goldenstedt OC 2Co to ICC Bde HQ for Staff Training & Lt Nicholson to T/OC 2Co

6-10-17   2/Lt Maitland arrived 14Co - Capt Norris return OC 12Co from Adjt HQ/4Bn

7-10-17   11Co (5 officers 168 men 3 natives 185 camels)

7-10-17   Akaba Survey party - Part 2Co on patrol of 1Bn ICC under Maj Mills and Lt Gull (Intell officer) with Maj Schieber Egyptian State Telegraph Survey party (3 officers 41 men 64 camels) along the Pilgrim route to Akaba taking seven days to get there.

9-10-17   remainder 10Co arrive & Lt Vyner 14Co to AFC

12-10-17   3Bn ICC relieving 4Bn ICC in Ghabi works *redoubt  & 2/Lt O'Keefe arrived 18Co & Lt Lamb to HQ/1Bn

17-10-17   post at Goz Lakhleilat by 3Bn ICC withdrawn return 19-10-17

17-10-17   Akaba Survey party part 2Co under Maj Mills at Akaba meet TEL just return from raid on Maan

17-10-17   Lt Fitzhardinge arrived 11Co & Sgt Deutchman prom 2/Lt 4Co

21-10-17   2xCo's 3Bn ICC + Sqn 5 LHR on operation to Khalosa rtn 28-10-17

22-10-17   4Bn ICC arrived at Abu Shalyum digging/improving wells and making water troughs & Lt Adolph att Intell officer 4Bn HQ

23-10-17   HK&SMB with Cml Bde to Khalasa & 4Bn ICC moved to Khalasa digging/improving wells and making water troughs

27-10-17    Col Newcombe's force made up 2 vickers guns and 8 Lewis guns of 2 officers 16 NCo's from Advance School of Instruction , 5 men from 20th MG Sqn and 3 sigs from 5th Co were ordered to Gamli Station on 28 Oct

28-10-17   2xCos (8Co 10Co) 2Bn ICC to Kent Fort rtn 30-10-17

30-10-17   mixed force under Col Newcombe moved to cut the Beersheba-Hebron road

30-10-17  ICC Bde on operations around Beersheba moved to Taweil el Habari 2xCo's 3Bn ICC replaced 2xCo's 2Bn to Fort Kent and with 10Co att 4Bn ICC to watch Sheria

30-10-17 reported 3Bn strength 25 officers 647 men

31-10-17 Battle Beersheba

Camel Bde HQ - Gen Smith

2Bn (7Co 8Co 9Co 10Co) - LtCol Buxton

3Bn (11Co 12Co 13Co 14Co) - LtCol De Lancey-Forth

4Bn (15Co 16Co 17Co 18Co) - LtCol Lee

HK&SMB 26 MG Sqn and ACFA

+ 2xBn's Royal Fusiliers

 Nov 1917

 1-11-17   fighting around Beersheba & Capt Bell replaced Capt Norris 12Co & Capt Day replaced Capt Paterson 8Co & Capt Newsam replaced Capt Day 9Co to T/OC 8Co

2/6-11-17   reported mixed force under Col Newcombe all killed or surrendered north of Kuweilfeh at Daharryeh on the Beersheba- Hebron road

2-11-16    HK&SMB in action at Toweil Abu Jarwal

3-11-17   4Bn ICC relieved British 7th Mtd Bde Yeomanry at Khuweilfeh (15Co had 2 wounded) & Capt Howard replaced Kessels WIA OC 18Co

4-11-17   4Bn ICC relieved by British Infantry (53rd Div) moved back to Beersheba & 2xCo's returned 3Bn ICC

5-11-17   2Bn ICC & 4Bn ICC moved to Ras el Nagb

6-11-17   attack by 3Bn ICC & 53rd Div at Kuweilfeh (3Bn cut off by Turks with heavy losses) and Turkish raid on position 4Bn ICC at Ras el Nagb

6-11-17   Capt Dixon replaced Capt Creswell 11Co killed at Kuweilfeh

6-11-17   HK&SMB relieved Somerset Bty at Ras el Nagb

7-11-17  reported a car from 1 ALCP attached to ICC Bde for patrol work and keep tough with flanks

8-11-17   3Bn ICC advance to Wadi Fattas Turks lose 64 men and 3Bn ICC report 105 dead in front of their position.  4Bn ICC under attack by Turks at Ras el Nagb  (15Co had 6 wounded)

8-11-17    Capt Pettit Temp replaced Capt Bunbury 5Co PoW 3-11-17

10-11-17   13Co (4 officers 158 men 4 natives 190 camels) & ICC Bde moved to Sheria

11-11-17   12Co (5 officers 141 men 4 natives 180 camels)

12-11-17   ICC Bde at Julis

13-11-17   ICC Bde arrived Esdud reported 2Bn attacked Yebna with 4Bn in Support the 16Co lost 1 killed and 5 wounded

14-11-17   4Bn ICC arrived at Yebna & 2/Lt O'Keefe arrived 18Co while (9Co) 2Bn supported NZMB at Ayun Kara

15-11-17   15Co & 13Co moved to Abu Shusheh 17Co & 18Co arrived next day

16/17-11-17   ICC Bde attacked around Abu Shusheh to Barriye

18-11-17   HK&SMB deattached to water at Ludd move att Yeo Mtd Div at Ramlah A Sect under Capt Skilton att 22nd Mtd Bde to Shilta

18-11-17   ICC Bde at Ludd  & 2/Lt Fitzhardinge arrived 11Co

21-11-17   18Co (4 officers 173 men 4 natives 200 camels)

21-11-17   2/Lt CF Jones arrived 18Co & 2/Lt McMurray arrived 13Co - 2/Lt Knight arrived 12Co

22-11-17   2Bn ICC took over Yahudiyeh (Bald Hill (Hill 265) area) & B&C Sects HK&SMB to Beit el Foka

22-11-17   2/Lt Goodwin arrived 14Co & 2/Lt Moseley arrived 13Co

23-11-17   2/Lt Deutchman arrived 14Co - 2/Lt Wilson - 2/Lt McCarthy & 2/Lt White arrived 11Co

24-11-17   5Co under Capt Reid moves from El Arish to ICC depot Abbassia to reequipt

24-11-17   2/Lt Bottomley arrived 12Co & Lt Conrick Adjt HQ/3Bn returned 12Co - 2/Lt Morris arrived from 18Co to 17Co 25-11-17

25-11-17   2Bn ICC relieved by 4Bn ICC on Hill 265

25-11-17   14Co (7 officers 135 men 4 natives 155 camels) & 17Co (5 officers 168 men 4 natives 199 camels)  

27-11-17   5Co arrived at ICC depot (4 officers 129 men)

27 Nov to 5 Dec 1917  Battle at Bald Hill

 

28-11-17   Lt Mills prom Capt replaced Lt Nicholson OC 2Co

30-11-17   HK&SMB to El Burj

 Dec 1917

 12-17      Capt Reid replaced Capt Pettit OC 5Co on UK leave & Capt Tod replaced Capt Wilkinson OC 10Co

1-12-17   13Co (6 officers 136 men 4 natives 172 camels)

3-12-17   2/Lt Williamson arrived 14Co moved to 13Co 21-12-17 & JC Smith arrived 14Co

4-12-17   Maj Davis returned to 15Co from course

5-12-17   ICC Bde relived by NZMB in the Bald Hill defences during night

6-12-17   ICC Bde returned to Shellal arrived 10-12-17

11-12-17   5Co under Capt Reid (6 officers 156 men 220 camels) (Lt's  Streeter, Adams, Kingston & Wilks) left ICC depot for Beersheba arrived 29-12-17

 

11-12-17   14Co (4 officers 110 men 4 natives 137 camels)

12-12-17   2/Lt McMurray moved from 13Co to 12Co

12-12-17    reported 3Bn strength 26 officers 440 men 569 camels

14-12-17   patrol to Tor (and Mt Sinai & Monastry of St Catherine)  from 3Co 1Bn ICC under Capt Hogue with (Lt Cox & Gowland and 46 men) with Maj Schrieber Egyptian State Telegraph & Officers of the Sinai Mining Company) from Ayun Musa via Abu Zenima to Tor arrived 22-12-17 returned arrived back at Ayun Musa 2-1-18 with Maj Schrieber injuried in camel fall

14-12-17   Maj Mills arrived as CO 4Bn (LtCol Lee RTA after Court of inquiry into the loss of Bald Hill)

17-12-17   Maj Nobbs to 2ic 4Bn HQ

20-12-17   ICC Bde moved to Rafa & Lt Adolph rtn 16Co from Intell officer 4Bn HQ

30-12-17   Lt Tree replaced Maj Nobbs 13Co & Capt Bell-Irving replaced Capt Gregory 7Co DoW at Bald Hill

Jan 1918

During month 5Co at Beersheba patrols out to Samua and Aslug (Lt's Wilks - Streeter - Kingston - Adams)

 1-18    Capt Joynson replaced Capt Morgan as Bde Signals officer ICC Bde

1-18    6Co under Capt Houghton (Lt's Brook - Burton) - at Sollum patrols to Sebil and post at Sanet Essebil

1-1-18   1Bn ICC replaced at Ferry Post by 3Bn ICC on return to Canal with 15Co replaced 13Co to 4Bn ICC

2-1-18   3Bn ICC at Kantara patrol work out to Ferdan

5-1-18   HK&SMB returned to ICC Bde (6 British officers 3 Indian officers 222 Men)

5-1-18   17Co (7 officers 150 men 2 natives 190 camels)

6-1-18   Lt JC Smith to 17Co from 14Co

15-1-18   2/Lt Deutchman from 14Co to 3Co

16-1-18   1Bn ICC under LtCol Langley (23 officers 660 men) arrived ICC Bde at Rafa

21-1-18  Gen Chauvel inspected Bde at Rafa

26-1-18   Maj Buxton replaced LtCol Gardner leave to UK & Maj Kessels replaced Capt Howard 18Co

29-1-18   Lt Sanderson to Intell officer HQ/4Bn & 2/Lt CF Jones att 13Co

29-1-18   Lt Nicholson T/replaced Capt Wright 1Co return 8-4-18 and Lt's Camm & Hawley to AFC

30-1-18   patrol under Lt Kingston 5Co to find bodies of Newcomb's force lost or captured at Daharryeh on the Hebron Road Nov 1917

[Eran Tearosh]

Wow!

Almost 01:00 here, so I'll have to go through this wonderful stuff in the morning.... 

You should take a look at Hogue's book. You can read it online at: https://archive.org/details/cameliers00hogurich/mode/2up?view=theater

Thanks for everything!

Eran

[stevenbecker]

Cheers Mate I will, Good night

PS,

just started reading and I am afraid be careful of what he writes as not all is his expirences, but taken from others.

Names changed of cause, but the aircraft lost on page 24-25 with Ridley and Garside, took place in June 1916 and Hogue was not with the ICC at that time

I record it as

14-6-16   small force 1Co ICC with No1 LCP (Lt Lindsay Ex Fife & Forfar Yeo) left Kharga to patrol to Dakhla during which an aircraft was lost and the force was diverted to find them, only to find their bodies

Your right the Pilgrim's Patrol is on Chapt/ XV while the 3rd Gaza is Chapt XVII

Allenby arrived chapt XIX and shows June 1917?

So its plain the book is mixed around and not in order so we can not follow that the PP was before the 3rd Gaza

We should take his book with a grain of Salt, and stay with what he writes rather then in what order he placed his chapters

Cheers

Edited 4 February by stevenbecker

[Eran Tearosh]

 

Of course, I can't be certain that Houge isn't using the experiences of others, but it seems that when he uses words like 'we' etc' - it is personal experience. 

I agree that we should view all books of this kind, including this particular one, with a grain of salt. 

Yes, Allenby took command of the EEF in June 1917. 

[stevenbecker]

Eran,

Yes he like many Aussie writers about there time in the LH and ICC, tend to add to there stories.

Idress is big on that, and Frank Reid does some of it also.

In that they like to write from the third person or just use Mess talk in there writings.

Some are good at general details, but should not be seen as a History