RFC / RAF Wireless Operators

[Clive ex RAF plumber]

Good Afternoon All,  Am I right in assuming that Wireless Operators on the strength of a Reconnaissance /  Artillery Observation squadron were the men who worked with the gun batteries. Regards Clive

[charlie962]

Whilst I've come across RFC wireless operators attached to Artillery units and clearly doing the Artillery liaison at the Artillery HQ (cannot recall if Battery or Brigade level?), I'm sure that's not the exclusive use of wireless operators!

[charlie962]

Just as an example , Frederick Biscoe 7443 was with 5** Squadron (BE2 Artillery Observation) but attached 141 Heavy Battery RGA when he earned his MM for good work in June 1917.

 

**Edit.his service record has early gaps. Could have been 9squadron (Also Arty Obs) like Thomas below? Doesn't affect the illustration, though.

Edited 24 January by charlie962

[Clive ex RAF plumber]

54 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Whilst I've come across RFC wireless operators attached to Artillery units and clearly doing the Artillery liaison at the Artillery HQ (cannot recall if Battery or Brigade level?), I'm sure that's not the exclusive use of wireless operators!

Thanks for that Charlie, I realise that squadrons would need a Wireless Section to repair and service aircraft sets but cannot understand what role a Wireless Operator would play on day to day duties on the squadron other than liaison with the batteries.  What are your thoughts?   

[charlie962]

Thomas 50104 is another MM winner but I think he came from 9Squadron

[charlie962]

I'm not too well up on this. I've just come across men in the past and made a mental note because it interests me and I'd like to see the follow-up on this thread!

Biscoe and Thomas above earned their MMs attached to 141 HBty.

Extract from History of 141 H Bty courtesy AMOT and RA Museum:

They both have Airmens' Service Records.

Whilst I can find other examples I don't know exactly the arrangements from the Artillery side for these attachments.

@ororkep would probably know for the RGA ?

Charlie

 

 

[Clive ex RAF plumber]

31 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

I'm not too well up on this. I've just come across men in the past and made a mental note because it interests me and I'd like to see the follow-up on this thread!

Biscoe and Thomas above earned their MMs attached to 141 HBty.

Extract from History of 141 H Bty courtesy AMOT and RA Museum:

They both have Airmens' Service Records.

Whilst I can find other examples I don't know exactly the arrangements from the Artillery side for these attachments.

@ororkep would probably know for the RGA ?

Charlie

 

 

I've read in numerous books that the Wireless Operators were supplied from RFC / RAF Squadrons.  The aircraft sent messages when ranging the guns to the RFC / RAF Wireless Operators who passed the messages to the guns but they couldn't communicate directly with the aircraft I don't think (possibly later in the war they could, somebody with more knowledge than I may be able to answer that).  Regards Clive 

[MikeMeech]

4 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Whilst I've come across RFC wireless operators attached to Artillery units and clearly doing the Artillery liaison at the Artillery HQ (cannot recall if Battery or Brigade level?), I'm sure that's not the exclusive use of wireless operators!

Hi

This can be dependent on the period of the war that is being discussed, but I shall try to give some general information.  The G-1098-33c Mobilization Table of July 1917 for an RFC (24 Aeroplane) Corps Squadron mentions that when a squadron is sent overseas 5 wireless operators should accompany it.  It should also be noted that throughout 1916 the demands for wireless operators was increasing as the RFC got larger, one method of increasing their numbers (while the RFC increased its training) was to transfer trained operators from the navy.  At an RFC Corps Wing Commanders held at RFC HQ on 12th February 1917 it was stated that "About 15 naval operators for each Corps Wing will be available very shortly.  They are said to be expert operators, but have no knowledge of the sort of work they will be called on to perform in Corps Squadrons."

Further it stated that after a fortnight's training at Aircraft Depot before being posted to Wings, and the suggestion was "... that their proper employment would be at places like Squadron Headquarters, and at other posts where they could start work under a well-trained Royal Flying Corps operator."

So that all is on the squadron itself.

A post-Messines document relating to work undertaken by Artillery Squadrons that includes reference to Wireless.  The Central Wireless Station system was in operation and this is described as the advanced "Squadron Wireless Section" this would normally be located at or near the HQ of the Corps Heavy Artillery.  The CWS had a number of roles including that the squadron of aircraft could contact them to see if there W/T set was working if they got no response from the batteries they were working with, also the CWS would monitor and note down the messages sent by their aircraft.

In the Second Army area during the battle the document notes that the number of wireless stations in use on 29th April was 12 with HA Groups, 64 with Heavy and Siege Batteries, and 24 with Divisional Artillery. By the 7th June there were 38 with HA Groups, 187 with Heavy and Siege Batteries and 55 with Divisional Artillery.  There was usually 2 operators at each station basically managed by the RFC squadron that they worked with.  There would be a Corps squadron with each Corps each with a CWS usually.

It was at Messines the RFC tried out two way W/T for long-range spotting (This was No. 42 Sqn. working with a 12" Howitzer Bty. over a range of 12,000 yards) which was regarded as successful.  This led to the introduction of Bristol Fighters with two way W/T being introduced in early 1918, first in ones and twos attached to a Corps Squadron and then later in 1918 the formation of L,M,N,O and P Flights for the task.

I hope that helps a little, but it is a quite big subject.

Mike

[ICM - RAF Retd]

Another example.  Ira Jones, later Wg Cdr Jones DSO, MC, DFC, MM, went to France with 10 Squadron in July 1915 as a radio operator and certainly worked forward with gun batteries, 10 then 13 Siege Howitzers.  He got his MM with the latter - all in his autobiography "Tiger Squadron." 

[Clive ex RAF plumber]

14 hours ago, MikeMeech said:

Hi

This can be dependent on the period of the war that is being discussed, but I shall try to give some general information.  The G-1098-33c Mobilization Table of July 1917 for an RFC (24 Aeroplane) Corps Squadron mentions that when a squadron is sent overseas 5 wireless operators should accompany it.  It should also be noted that throughout 1916 the demands for wireless operators was increasing as the RFC got larger, one method of increasing their numbers (while the RFC increased its training) was to transfer trained operators from the navy.  At an RFC Corps Wing Commanders held at RFC HQ on 12th February 1917 it was stated that "About 15 naval operators for each Corps Wing will be available very shortly.  They are said to be expert operators, but have no knowledge of the sort of work they will be called on to perform in Corps Squadrons."

Further it stated that after a fortnight's training at Aircraft Depot before being posted to Wings, and the suggestion was "... that their proper employment would be at places like Squadron Headquarters, and at other posts where they could start work under a well-trained Royal Flying Corps operator."

So that all is on the squadron itself.

A post-Messines document relating to work undertaken by Artillery Squadrons that includes reference to Wireless.  The Central Wireless Station system was in operation and this is described as the advanced "Squadron Wireless Section" this would normally be located at or near the HQ of the Corps Heavy Artillery.  The CWS had a number of roles including that the squadron of aircraft could contact them to see if there W/T set was working if they got no response from the batteries they were working with, also the CWS would monitor and note down the messages sent by their aircraft.

In the Second Army area during the battle the document notes that the number of wireless stations in use on 29th April was 12 with HA Groups, 64 with Heavy and Siege Batteries, and 24 with Divisional Artillery. By the 7th June there were 38 with HA Groups, 187 with Heavy and Siege Batteries and 55 with Divisional Artillery.  There was usually 2 operators at each station basically managed by the RFC squadron that they worked with.  There would be a Corps squadron with each Corps each with a CWS usually.

It was at Messines the RFC tried out two way W/T for long-range spotting (This was No. 42 Sqn. working with a 12" Howitzer Bty. over a range of 12,000 yards) which was regarded as successful.  This led to the introduction of Bristol Fighters with two way W/T being introduced in early 1918, first in ones and twos attached to a Corps Squadron and then later in 1918 the formation of L,M,N,O and P Flights for the task.

I hope that helps a little, but it is a quite big subject.

Mike

Hi Mike, Thank you so much for the detailed information you provided, it has definitely jncreased my knowledge on the role of a  squadron Wireless Operator. Best Wishes Clive

[Clive ex RAF plumber]

13 hours ago, ICM - RAF Retd said:

Another example.  Ira Jones, later Wg Cdr Jones DSO, MC, DFC, MM, went to France with 10 Squadron in July 1915 as a radio operator and certainly worked forward with gun batteries, 10 then 13 Siege Howitzers.  He got his MM with the latter - all in his autobiography "Tiger Squadron." 

Thanks ICM, I never realised that Wing Commander Ira Jones DSO, MC, DFC, MM served initially in France as a Wireless Operator, I will definitely be buying a copy of 'Tiger Squadron'. Best Wishes Clive