Pottsy123456 Posted 23 January Share Posted 23 January Could someone help me find more information on my relative? I believe he died in France. There seems to be more information inputted by users on Ancestry, but I would like to verify it myself. However, I cannot find a typical service record for him, I have the following information: Name James William Eldred Birth Place Poplar Residence Millwall Death Date 28 Feb 1917 Death Place France and Flanders Enlistment Place Poplar Rank Private Regiment London Regiment Battalion 11th Battalion Regimental Number 8116 Type of Casualty Died of wounds Theatre of War Western European Theatre Comments Formerly 4315, Middx. Regt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 23 January Share Posted 23 January (edited) 46 minutes ago, Pottsy123456 said: Could someone help me find more information on my relative? I believe he died in France. There seems to be more information inputted by users on Ancestry, but I would like to verify it myself. However, I cannot find a typical service record for him, I have the following information: Name James William Eldred Birth Place Poplar Residence Millwall Death Date 28 Feb 1917 Death Place France and Flanders Enlistment Place Poplar Rank Private Regiment London Regiment Battalion 11th Battalion Regimental Number 8116 Type of Casualty Died of wounds Theatre of War Western European Theatre Comments Formerly 4315, Middx. Regt. Hi Pottsy123456 it doesn't look like James' record has survived but this is a Pension Index Card for him and is brother. Image courtesy of Fold3. Edited 23 January by Gunner 87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbaraG Posted 23 January Share Posted 23 January Apologies if you have already seen his CWGC entry... https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/72920/j-w-eldred/ https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/15989146/j-w-eldred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 23 January Share Posted 23 January This is the 1914-1915 Star recording 'Died of Wounds' Ancestry also hold the Medal Roll for the Victory Medal and British War Medal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbaraG Posted 23 January Share Posted 23 January (edited) On 23/01/2024 at 05:39, Gunner 87 said: Ancestry also hold the Medal Roll for the Victory Medal and British War Medal Ref: Ancestry Edited 26 January by BarbaraG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbaraG Posted 23 January Share Posted 23 January (edited) His brother Benjamin appears to have served as George COX during WW1 and died of wounds. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/626061/g-cox/ See this older thread... https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/223285-dardanelles-eldred-aka-a-cox-shot-by-sniper-1917/?_fromLogin=1 Ref: Ancestry - Medal Index Card COX George RFA 81068 Ref: WFA Pension Records - Dependents Pension COX George / ELDRED Benjamin / ELDRED James Mother Mrs Matilda ELDRED, 32 Malabar Street, Millwall Ref: Ancestry - Census Returns On the 1911 Census 'ED, Institution, or vessel - Mauritius and South Africa Registered as Benjamin ELDRED - Driver RFA On the 1901 Census for POPLAR John & Matilda ELDRED and family Edited 26 January by BarbaraG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pottsy123456 Posted 23 January Author Share Posted 23 January Wow this is really amazing guys. I am impressed with the detailed help! 11 hours ago, Gunner 87 said: Hi Pottsy123456 it doesn't look like James' record has survived but this is a Pension Index Card for him and is brother. Image courtesy of Fold3. Why would have Benjamin gone under an alias? Was that a common thing to do? What would have been the point of going under a different name, even though the identity is uncovered in these documents? 10 hours ago, BarbaraG said: His brother Benjamin appears to have served as George COX during WW1 and died of wounds. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/626061/g-cox/ On the 1911 Census 'ED, Institution, or vessel - Mauritius and South Africa Registered as Benjamin ELDRED - Driver RFA See this older thread... https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/223285-dardanelles-eldred-aka-a-cox-shot-by-sniper-1917/?_fromLogin=1 Thank you for linking this, I had not heard the oral history before. That is very interesting to me and you have also connected me with a distant relative! So let me get the timelines right, please let me know if you think I have missed anything: James William Eldred (B.1886 to 1917) Enlisted [or sent to France?] 26th July 1915 Regiment No. - GS/8116 Regiment - 11th Bttn. Royal Fusiliers [Member of the 54th Brigade?] Died 28th Feb 1917 - France [Cause of death: "L of ..?", Died of Wounds] Buried at Varennes Military Cemetery, France Medals Received: 15 Star, British War & Victory Medal Benjamin Eldred (AKA George Cox) (B.1888 to 1915) Attested into the Royal Artillery in 1907, as a Driver in Royal Field Artillery, then was discharged in 1913 for misconduct [according to previous post] Re-enlisted in 1915 as 'George Cox', Driver in Royal Field Artillery Regiment No. - 81068 Regiment - 460th Bttn. Royal Field Artillery [Member of the 29th Division?] Sent to Egypt 5th April 1915 Died 6th June 1915 [Cause of death: Died of Wounds] Buried at East Mudros Military Cemetery, Greece [Below document states Gallipoli, so did Benjamin die there?] Medals Received: 15 Star, British War & Victory Medal Thank you again everyone, you have been all really helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 23 January Share Posted 23 January 2 minutes ago, Pottsy123456 said: Why would have Benjamin gone under an alias? Was that a common thing to do? Very common and for many reasons. Benjamin's was to re-enlist after being discharged without being identified as the same soldier who committed offences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pottsy123456 Posted 23 January Author Share Posted 23 January I am just going to post this here to keep the information with the rest of the Eldred brothers, I believe Daniel survived the war and lived right up until the early 1980's: Daniel Eldred (B.1895) Regiment No. 2693 / 947647 Rank - Driver Deemed medically fit for service 27th October 1915 3/3rd London Brigade, RFA. 3/7 Btn. Home Service - 27th October 1915 to 21st February 1916 BEF France - 22nd February 1916 to 24th October 1918 Posted to 56th London DAC - 20th May 1916 Granted leave to the UK - 1st Sept 1917 to 15th Sept 1917 Attached to 280 Brigade - 16th March 1918 Furlough - 25th October 1918 to 7th November 1918 Return to France - 8th November 1918 to 13th June 1919 Home - 14th June 1919 Demobbed - 15th June 1919 If anyone has any other insight please let me know! (I would love to know what the offenses were, but to me it is illegible) Please do not post complete Service Records - this is in breach of Forum Rules. You can provide a link to the Record instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pottsy123456 Posted 23 January Author Share Posted 23 January https://www.ancestrylibrary.com/discoveryui-content/view/628057:1219?ssrc=pt&tid=71361531&pid=32240789388 Daniel Eldred - WW1 Service Record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Atkins Posted 23 January Share Posted 23 January Re Benjamin Eldred’s death: Mudros is a Greek island, and casualties from Gallipoli were evacuated there for treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pottsy123456 Posted 23 January Author Share Posted 23 January Just now, Pat Atkins said: Re Benjamin Eldred’s death: Mudros is a Greek island, and casualties from Gallipoli were evacuated there for treatment. Thank you Pat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pottsy123456 Posted 24 January Author Share Posted 24 January (edited) I have hit another wall with the eldest brother, John Henry Eldred (b.1883). According to his marriage certificate in 1915, he is listed as being a 'Soldier', but I cannot find any record of him, I am not sure I can even find him in the 1911 Census. I have found a few medal cards with the same name, but unsure if it is him. Where else could I look? WO-372-6-181095.pdf WO-372-6-181104.pdf WO-372-6-181090.pdf Edited 24 January by Pottsy123456 year of birth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pottsy123456 Posted 24 January Author Share Posted 24 January (edited) On 23/01/2024 at 10:33, Pottsy123456 said: Benjamin Eldred (AKA George Cox) (B.1888 to 1915) Attested into the Royal Artillery in 1907, as a Driver in Royal Field Artillery, then was discharged in 1913 for misconduct [according to previous post] Re-enlisted in 1915 as 'George Cox', Driver in Royal Field Artillery Regiment No. - 81068 Regiment - 460th Bttn. Royal Field Artillery [Member of the 29th Division?] Sent to Egypt 5th April 1915 Died 6th June 1915 [Cause of death: Died of Wounds] Buried at East Mudros Military Cemetery, Greece [Below document states Gallipoli, so did Benjamin die there?] Medals Received: 15 Star, British War & Victory Medal Just to add to the info, Benjamin was recorded as being in the 95th Battery, Royal Field Artillery. Temple O.F.S (Orange Free State), South Africa during the 1911 Census. I know this is a WW1 forum, but currently looking for further information on this too. On 14/01/2015 at 06:51, HERITAGE PLUS said: Benjamin Eldred, from Poplar, attested into the Royal Artillery in 1907 and was discharged in 1913 for misconduct. His service papers - Service No: 46820 - are on Find my Past. Dave Apparently his service number too. Will have to get a FMP subscription soon. Edited 24 January by Pottsy123456 Service No. from previous post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 24 January Share Posted 24 January 35 minutes ago, Pottsy123456 said: Where else could I look? Always look for an Absent Voters List, and I'm pleased to say that one survives for Tower Hamlets which I believe Poplar and Millwall were part of when the lists were first compiled in 1918. Their intention was to list all men and women unable to cast a vote in person in their home constituency as a result of being away on miltary service or other reason. There is a surviving list for 1920 for a small part of Tower Hamlets, but I doubt it covers Poplar, and seems to include a fair bit of Bermondsey. This may be an Ancestry indexing foible. The other point of course is that by 1920, the vast majority of servicemen had been discharged, and don't appeasr on the list. Anyway, you could find the man you're looking for, assuming of course that you have an address to go on. Ancestry have the AVL here: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61320/images/31361_214805-00082?ssrc=&backlabel=Return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pottsy123456 Posted 24 January Author Share Posted 24 January (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: Always look for an Absent Voters List, and I'm pleased to say that one survives for Tower Hamlets which I believe Poplar and Millwall were part of when the lists were first compiled in 1918. Their intention was to list all men and women unable to cast a vote in person in their home constituency as a result of being away on miltary service or other reason. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61320/images/31361_214805-00082?ssrc=&backlabel=Return Wow this is great, thank you. I have one John Eldred in the Machine Gun Corps. (Service No. 149352). I will do some more digging to see if that is our man. It is listed in Southwark, which may be a stretch, but still worth a look. Edited 24 January by Pottsy123456 more info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 24 January Share Posted 24 January That's good. There is a more extensive AVL for Southwark that you can browse: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61320/images/31361_214790-00368?ssrc=&backlabel=Return or you can use the search box for all the Ancestry lists: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/61320/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pottsy123456 Posted 25 January Author Share Posted 25 January Thank you, I will let you know if I find anything useful! On 24/01/2024 at 11:24, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: That's good. There is a more extensive AVL for Southwark that you can browse: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61320/images/31361_214790-00368?ssrc=&backlabel=Return or you can use the search box for all the Ancestry lists: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/61320/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbaraG Posted 26 January Share Posted 26 January (edited) A strong contender here when finding assorted 'clues'. Ref: Ancestry Medal Index Card John Henry ELDRED 89638 R E Served in France 10.8.15 I think that John & Maud may have had children before they married a couple of Baptisms appear. Ref: Ancestry Church of England Baptisms John Benjamin ELDRED b 29 March 1908 Bapt. 03 June 1908 Christ Church, Poplar Maud Matilda Evelyn ALDRED b 06 September 1912 Bapt 25 Sept 1912 St Lukes, Millwall NB. Slight variation is spelling Possibly got married days before he left for France???? Edited 26 January by BarbaraG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pottsy123456 Posted 26 January Author Share Posted 26 January Thank you for sending over this paperwork, as far as I know John Henry Eldred lived until 1957, as I have him in the 1939 Census living with his brother Steven. Also it seems they lived on West Ferry Road, Poplar during this time (baptism, marriage and census records). So J. H. Eldred (89638) cannot be our man if he is listed as dead and the address is wrong? However in other documents, the 1939 Census and a 1908 baptism record, he is listed as being a 'Plater Steel Constructor Heavy' and a 'Sheet Leveler', which could be inline with the 1911 Census. But it says he is married and has had 2 children die. As far as I know he did not marry until 1915, would it be common to state on a Census you're married but just covering up the fact you had children out of wedlock? Thanks again for the help! 3 hours ago, BarbaraG said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbaraG Posted 26 January Share Posted 26 January WFA Pension Record Card I am not very good at interpreting the detail on the card but I don't think DEAD near the 1926 date are necessarily connected. Would appreciate guidance from Admin. @RussT possibly and please. I do think the address is an important 'clue' though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pottsy123456 Posted 26 January Author Share Posted 26 January 13 minutes ago, BarbaraG said: WFA Pension Record Card I am not very good at interpreting the detail on the card but I don't think DEAD near the 1926 date are necessarily connected. Would appreciate guidance from Admin. @RussT possibly and please. I do think the address is an important 'clue' though. Yes, you maybe right. What are the chances of two John Eldred's living in Cubitt Town and working in the same industry. Could possibly be the same person. I will try to look for Maud in a 1911 Census. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbaraG Posted 26 January Share Posted 26 January (edited) 1 hour ago, Pottsy123456 said: Yes, you maybe right. What are the chances of two John Eldred's living in Cubitt Town and working in the same industry. Could possibly be the same person. I will try to look for Maud in a 1911 Census. Found her in Convalescent Home, Sutton road, Morden, Mitcham see No. 43 registered as Maud ELDRED which ties in with John being on his own. Free BMD may give clues to the two children who died shortly after birth, sadly mother's surname not recorded at this time. Think Maud was in poor health and possibly her death was around April 1925 reg Poplar. Edited 26 January by BarbaraG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbaraG Posted 26 January Share Posted 26 January (edited) Haven't been able to find son Benjamin (named after his uncle ?) on 1911 Census as yet but LEACH Family Tree links his Birth Certificate. Edited 26 January by BarbaraG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pottsy123456 Posted 26 January Author Share Posted 26 January (edited) Wow this is great thank you. I think I found Maud in the 1901 Census on ancestry: 3 hours ago, Pottsy123456 said: As far as I know she had children: John Benjamin (1908-?) (Possibly died in 1938) Maud Matilda Evelyn (1912-?) (Lived at least until 1939 Register) May Hannah (1914-1915) George (1915-1915) But Harry or Lottie could fit into those years, so I will try to find some records for them. Edited 26 January by Pottsy123456 source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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