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Remembered Today:

Pvt. James W. Eldred (1886 - 1917)


Pottsy123456

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Could someone help me find more information on my relative? I believe he died in France. There seems to be more information inputted by users on Ancestry, but I would like to verify it myself. However, I cannot find a typical service record for him, I have the following information:

Name James William Eldred
Birth Place Poplar
Residence Millwall
Death Date 28 Feb 1917
Death Place France and Flanders
Enlistment Place Poplar
Rank Private
Regiment London Regiment
Battalion 11th Battalion
Regimental Number 8116
Type of Casualty Died of wounds
Theatre of War Western European Theatre
Comments Formerly 4315, Middx. Regt.

42511_6117463_0078-00011.jpg

30850_A000497-01004.jpg

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46 minutes ago, Pottsy123456 said:

Could someone help me find more information on my relative? I believe he died in France. There seems to be more information inputted by users on Ancestry, but I would like to verify it myself. However, I cannot find a typical service record for him, I have the following information:

Name James William Eldred
Birth Place Poplar
Residence Millwall
Death Date 28 Feb 1917
Death Place France and Flanders
Enlistment Place Poplar
Rank Private
Regiment London Regiment
Battalion 11th Battalion
Regimental Number 8116
Type of Casualty Died of wounds
Theatre of War Western European Theatre
Comments Formerly 4315, Middx. Regt.

42511_6117463_0078-00011.jpg

30850_A000497-01004.jpg

Hi Pottsy123456

it doesn't look like James' record has survived but this is a Pension Index Card for him and is brother.

Image courtesy of Fold3.

 

3B02E54C-EFFC-49A7-A4A8-A4C01AF3F8EC.jpeg

Edited by Gunner 87
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This is the 1914-1915 Star recording 'Died of Wounds'

Ancestry also hold the Medal Roll for the Victory Medal and British War Medal

 

4C068F72-5F7F-4D9E-96A6-796FB8B0363A.jpeg

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On 23/01/2024 at 05:39, Gunner 87 said:

Ancestry also hold the Medal Roll for the Victory Medal and British War Medal

 

 

Ref: Ancestry

image.png.9897de107fc4f96f36ba7976f9c4c303.png

 

Edited by BarbaraG
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His brother Benjamin appears to have served as George COX during WW1 and died of wounds.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/626061/g-cox/

See this older thread...

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/223285-dardanelles-eldred-aka-a-cox-shot-by-sniper-1917/?_fromLogin=1

Ref: Ancestry - Medal Index Card COX George RFA 81068

Ref: WFA Pension Records - Dependents Pension COX George / ELDRED Benjamin / ELDRED James

Mother Mrs Matilda ELDRED, 32 Malabar Street, Millwall

Ref: Ancestry - Census Returns

 

On the 1911 Census 'ED, Institution, or vessel - Mauritius and South Africa

Registered as Benjamin ELDRED - Driver RFA

On the 1901 Census for POPLAR John & Matilda ELDRED and family

 

 

Edited by BarbaraG
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Wow this is really amazing guys. I am impressed with the detailed help!
 

11 hours ago, Gunner 87 said:

Hi Pottsy123456

it doesn't look like James' record has survived but this is a Pension Index Card for him and is brother.

Image courtesy of Fold3.

Why would have Benjamin gone under an alias? Was that a common thing to do?
What would have been the point of going under a different name, even though the identity is uncovered in these documents?

10 hours ago, BarbaraG said:

His brother Benjamin appears to have served as George COX during WW1 and died of wounds.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/626061/g-cox/

On the 1911 Census 'ED, Institution, or vessel - Mauritius and South Africa

Registered as Benjamin ELDRED - Driver RFA

See this older thread...

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/223285-dardanelles-eldred-aka-a-cox-shot-by-sniper-1917/?_fromLogin=1

Thank you for linking this, I had not heard the oral history before. That is very interesting to me and you have also connected me with a distant relative!

So let me get the timelines right, please let me know if you think I have missed anything:

James William Eldred (B.1886 to 1917)

Enlisted [or sent to France?] 26th July 1915
Regiment No. - GS/8116
Regiment - 11th Bttn. Royal Fusiliers [Member of the 54th Brigade?]
Died 28th Feb 1917 - France [Cause of death: "L of ..?", Died of Wounds]
Buried at Varennes Military Cemetery, France
Medals Received: 15 Star, British War & Victory Medal

Benjamin Eldred (AKA George Cox) (B.1888 to 1915)

Attested into the Royal Artillery in 1907, as a Driver in Royal Field Artillery, then was discharged in 1913 for misconduct [according to previous post]
Re-enlisted in 1915 as 'George Cox', Driver in Royal Field Artillery
Regiment No. - 81068
Regiment - 460th Bttn. Royal Field Artillery [Member of the 29th Division?]
Sent to Egypt 5th April 1915
Died 6th June 1915 [Cause of death: Died of Wounds]
Buried at East Mudros Military Cemetery, Greece
[Below document states Gallipoli, so did Benjamin die there?]
Medals Received: 15 Star, British War & Victory Medal

image.png.fee9552060092af139c54451bdb9ae3f.png

Thank you again everyone, you have been all really helpful.

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2 minutes ago, Pottsy123456 said:

Why would have Benjamin gone under an alias? Was that a common thing to do?

Very common and for many reasons. Benjamin's was to re-enlist after being discharged without being identified as the same soldier who committed offences. 

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I am just going to post this here to keep the information with the rest of the Eldred brothers, I believe Daniel survived the war and lived right up until the early 1980's:

Daniel Eldred (B.1895)

Regiment No. 2693 / 947647
Rank - Driver

Deemed medically fit for service 27th October 1915
3/3rd London Brigade, RFA. 3/7 Btn.
Home Service - 27th October 1915 to 21st February 1916
BEF France - 22nd February 1916 to 24th October 1918
Posted to 56th London DAC - 20th May 1916
Granted leave to the UK - 1st Sept 1917 to 15th Sept 1917
Attached to 280 Brigade - 16th March 1918
Furlough - 25th October 1918 to 7th November 1918
Return to France - 8th November 1918 to 13th June 1919
Home - 14th June 1919
Demobbed - 15th June 1919

If anyone has any other insight please let me know! (I would love to know what the offenses were, but to me it is illegible)

 

image.png

gbrmil1914r4pt2_138288-00842.jpg

 

 

Please do not post complete Service Records - this is in breach of Forum Rules.

You can provide a link to the Record instead.

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Re Benjamin Eldred’s death: Mudros is a Greek island, and casualties from Gallipoli were evacuated there for treatment. 

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Just now, Pat Atkins said:

Re Benjamin Eldred’s death: Mudros is a Greek island, and casualties from Gallipoli were evacuated there for treatment. 

Thank you Pat!

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I have hit another wall with the eldest brother, John Henry Eldred (b.1883). According to his marriage certificate in 1915, he is listed as being a 'Soldier', but I cannot find any record of him, I am not sure I can even find him in the 1911 Census. I have found a few medal cards with the same name, but unsure if it is him.

Where else could I look?

WO-372-6-181095.pdf WO-372-6-181104.pdf WO-372-6-181090.pdf

Edited by Pottsy123456
year of birth
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On 23/01/2024 at 10:33, Pottsy123456 said:

Benjamin Eldred (AKA George Cox) (B.1888 to 1915)


Attested into the Royal Artillery in 1907, as a Driver in Royal Field Artillery, then was discharged in 1913 for misconduct [according to previous post]
Re-enlisted in 1915 as 'George Cox', Driver in Royal Field Artillery
Regiment No. - 81068
Regiment - 460th Bttn. Royal Field Artillery [Member of the 29th Division?]
Sent to Egypt 5th April 1915
Died 6th June 1915 [Cause of death: Died of Wounds]
Buried at East Mudros Military Cemetery, Greece
[Below document states Gallipoli, so did Benjamin die there?]
Medals Received: 15 Star, British War & Victory Medal

Just to add to the info, Benjamin was recorded as being in the 95th Battery, Royal Field Artillery. Temple O.F.S (Orange Free State), South Africa during the 1911 Census. I know this is a WW1 forum, but currently looking for further information on this too.

On 14/01/2015 at 06:51, HERITAGE PLUS said:

Benjamin Eldred, from Poplar, attested into the Royal Artillery in 1907 and was discharged in 1913 for misconduct. His service papers - Service No: 46820 - are on Find my Past.

Dave

Apparently his service number too. Will have to get a FMP subscription soon.

Edited by Pottsy123456
Service No. from previous post
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35 minutes ago, Pottsy123456 said:

Where else could I look?

Always look for an Absent Voters List, and I'm pleased to say that one survives for Tower Hamlets which I believe Poplar and Millwall were part of when the lists were first compiled in 1918. Their intention was to list all men and women unable to cast a vote in person in their home constituency as a result of being away on miltary service or other reason.
 

There is a surviving list for 1920 for a small part of Tower Hamlets, but I doubt it covers Poplar, and seems to include a fair bit of Bermondsey.
This may be an Ancestry indexing foible. The other point of course is that by 1920, the vast majority of servicemen had been discharged, and don't appeasr on the list.
Anyway, you could find the man you're looking for, assuming of course that you have an address to go on.
Ancestry have the AVL here:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61320/images/31361_214805-00082?ssrc=&backlabel=Return

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7 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Always look for an Absent Voters List, and I'm pleased to say that one survives for Tower Hamlets which I believe Poplar and Millwall were part of when the lists were first compiled in 1918. Their intention was to list all men and women unable to cast a vote in person in their home constituency as a result of being away on miltary service or other reason.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61320/images/31361_214805-00082?ssrc=&backlabel=Return

Wow this is great, thank you. I have one John Eldred in the Machine Gun Corps. (Service No. 149352).
I will do some more digging to see if that is our man.

It is listed in Southwark, which may be a stretch, but still worth a look.
   
Edited by Pottsy123456
more info
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Thank you, I will let you know if I find anything useful!
 

On 24/01/2024 at 11:24, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

That's good.
There is a more extensive AVL for Southwark that you can browse:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61320/images/31361_214790-00368?ssrc=&backlabel=Return

or you can use the search box for all the Ancestry lists:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/61320/

 

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A strong contender here when finding assorted 'clues'.

Ref: Ancestry Medal Index Card John Henry ELDRED 89638 R E Served in France 10.8.15

I think that John & Maud may have had children before they married a couple of Baptisms appear.

Ref: Ancestry Church of England Baptisms

John Benjamin ELDRED b 29 March 1908 Bapt. 03 June 1908 Christ Church, Poplar

Maud Matilda Evelyn ALDRED b 06 September 1912 Bapt 25 Sept 1912 St Lukes, Millwall

NB. Slight variation is spelling

Possibly got married days before he left for France???? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by BarbaraG
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Thank you for sending over this paperwork, as far as I know John Henry Eldred lived until 1957, as I have him in the 1939 Census living with his brother Steven. Also it seems they lived on West Ferry Road, Poplar during this time (baptism, marriage and census records).

So J. H. Eldred (89638) cannot be our man if he is listed as dead and the address is wrong?

However in other documents, the 1939 Census and a 1908 baptism record, he is listed as being a 'Plater Steel Constructor Heavy' and a 'Sheet Leveler', which could be inline with the 1911 Census. But it says he is married and has had 2 children die. As far as I know he did not marry until 1915, would it be common to state on a Census you're married but just covering up the fact you had children out of wedlock?

Thanks again for the help!

3 hours ago, BarbaraG said:

Eldred, John Henry (89638).jpg

image.png.a8915b24700b155e5ce54d9a50cf7377.png

Eldred_1939_Census.jpg.fe471e2f852c8aa6f27ba361abb752a1.jpg

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WFA Pension Record Card 

I am not very good at interpreting the detail on the card but I don't think DEAD near the 1926 date are necessarily connected.

Would appreciate guidance from Admin. @RussT possibly and please.

I do think the address is an important 'clue' though.

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13 minutes ago, BarbaraG said:

WFA Pension Record Card 

I am not very good at interpreting the detail on the card but I don't think DEAD near the 1926 date are necessarily connected.

Would appreciate guidance from Admin. @RussT possibly and please.

I do think the address is an important 'clue' though.

Yes, you maybe right. What are the chances of two John Eldred's living in Cubitt Town and working in the same industry. Could possibly be the same person. I will try to look for Maud in a 1911 Census.

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1 hour ago, Pottsy123456 said:

Yes, you maybe right. What are the chances of two John Eldred's living in Cubitt Town and working in the same industry. Could possibly be the same person. I will try to look for Maud in a 1911 Census.

Found her in  Convalescent Home, Sutton road, Morden, Mitcham see No. 43 registered as Maud ELDRED which ties in with John being on his own.

Free BMD may give clues to the two children who died shortly after birth, sadly mother's surname not recorded at this time.

Think Maud was in poor health and possibly her death was around April 1925 reg Poplar.

 

 

Edited by BarbaraG
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Haven't been able to find son Benjamin (named after his uncle ?) on 1911 Census as yet but LEACH Family Tree links his Birth Certificate.

 

Edited by BarbaraG
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Wow this is great thank you.

I think I found Maud in the 1901 Census on ancestry:
image.png.8241a69ddcef40331ce772d97e67fe77.png

3 hours ago, Pottsy123456 said:

image.png.a8915b24700b155e5ce54d9a50cf7377.png

 

As far as I know she had children:
John Benjamin (1908-?) (Possibly died in 1938)
Maud Matilda Evelyn (1912-?) (Lived at least until 1939 Register)
May Hannah (1914-1915)
George (1915-1915)

But Harry or Lottie could fit into those years, so I will try to find some records for them.

Edited by Pottsy123456
source
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