Sally M Posted 15 January Share Posted 15 January I am researching my great Uncle Cpl Stanley Gilbert Kibblewhite (1888 - 1917). It appears he was in 11th Battalion (Reg no G/11385) and then 10th battalion. On his medal Roll, it has the letter OEMS or maybe EMS - I don't know what this means - can anyone shed any light? Also, I cant find his military records and so don't know where he served, although obviously I know that he was engaged in Ypres because his name is on the Tyne Cot memorial, which I have seen. He died 26 October 1917, leaving a wife and one year old daughter. I have seen the war diary entries for the period of his death, but know very little else. Would anyone know where his records might be please. His brother, my grandfather, was in the navy and survived the great war. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 15 January Admin Share Posted 15 January Welcome to the forum. You may not be aware, but the majority of WW1 service records were destroyed during a bombing raid in WW2. It’s likely that his records were among those which went up in smoke. If they survived, they would be on Ancestry or Find my past. Pension records, if applicable, have survived, and can be found on Fold3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 15 January Share Posted 15 January Can't find a service record for him on Find My Past or Ancestry. His entry in the Medal Rolls shows that he was in the 11th Battalion at first then the 10th Battalion. This is at odds with his CWGC entry which records the 2nd Battalion ( Find War Dead | Search Results | CWGC ) and his entry in the Soldier's Died in the Great War database also show the 2nd Battalion. This entry shows that he enlisted at Lambeth, Surrey. ( Record Transcription: Soldiers Died In The Great War 1914-1919 | findmypast.co.uk ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 15 January Share Posted 15 January His entry in the Soldiers' Effects register shows that his legatee was his widow, Ethel. This entry also shows the 2nd Battalion. (image courtesy of Ancestry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 15 January Share Posted 15 January 38 minutes ago, Michelle Young said: Pension records, if applicable, have survived, and can be found on Fold3. Two cards available, images courtesy of the Western Front Association / Fold3 --- the first image also shows that he was with the 2nd Battalion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sally M Posted 15 January Author Share Posted 15 January Thank you. This confirm what information I had - I was confused too by the documents that had him in the 2nd battalion and those that had him in the 11th and 10th. I didnt know that the records had been destroyed. It makes sense, although is rather disappointing as I have all of my grandfather's original navy papers. So should I assume he signed up in August 2014? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 15 January Admin Share Posted 15 January The exact meaning behind those pencilled annotations like the one you mention on medal rolls has long since been forgotten. They are probably some form of verification check as to medal entitlement by someone in the medal roll compilers record office. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 15 January Admin Share Posted 15 January Just now, Sally M said: 2014 1914 ? I wouldn't assume that. We will be able to work out when he enlisted by his Service number. I'm out at the moment, so will help with that later unless someone beats me to it in the meantime. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sally M Posted 15 January Author Share Posted 15 January Thanks. Im trying to piece together his movements ! Its sad that he is missing and presumed dead, has no more direct ascendants ad even his records have been destroyed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 15 January Admin Share Posted 15 January The man who had the number G/11381 enlisted on 08/11/1915 and was posted to the 11th Bn. The man who had the number G/11388 enlisted on 09/11/1915 and was posted to the 11th Bn. You could look for further records to improve confidence but I would be happy to conclude that G/11385 Kibblewhite enlisted either on the 8th or 9th of November 1915 and was similarly posted to the 11th Bn with whom he would have trained and likely deployed to France when the 41st Division deployed in May 1916. It seems he was at some time transferred to the 10th Bn (as per his Medal Roll) but it also seems clear he ended with the 2nd Bn according to all other records. You could look at all these War Diaries during the relevant period for contexts. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 15 January Admin Share Posted 15 January You can see from an earlier post above that from his Soldiers' Effects Record his widow was entitled to a War Gratuity of £10. We can use that amount, together with his date of death and his rank (Cpl) to estimate an enlistment date. This also gives an enlistment date of November 1915, so this methodology is self-consistent with that derived above from Service Records of near-numbered men - and furthermore effectively confirms that he didn't enlist earlier/transferred from some other UK-based unit to the Queen's but rather enlisted into them directly just like his contemporaries. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 15 January Admin Share Posted 15 January 2 hours ago, Sally M said: ad even his records have been destroyed! This is from the How to research a soldier on the Long Long Trail website, which is recommended reading before asking questions. The records were thinned out before going into storage in the 1930s, by disposal of many documents. The majority were destroyed by fire at the Army Records Office on Arnside Street in Walworth, London, resulting from an air raid in 1940. Article: what was lost in the fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sally M Posted 15 January Author Share Posted 15 January Thank you Michelle, Allan and Russ - you have been really helpful...and fanned the flames of my interest again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11th Queen's Posted 18 April Share Posted 18 April On 15/01/2024 at 14:37, RussT said: The man who had the number G/11381 enlisted on 08/11/1915 and was posted to the 11th Bn. The man who had the number G/11388 enlisted on 09/11/1915 and was posted to the 11th Bn. You could look for further records to improve confidence but I would be happy to conclude that G/11385 Kibblewhite enlisted either on the 8th or 9th of November 1915 and was similarly posted to the 11th Bn with whom he would have trained and likely deployed to France when the 41st Division deployed in May 1916. It seems he was at some time transferred to the 10th Bn (as per his Medal Roll) but it also seems clear he ended with the 2nd Bn according to all other records. You could look at all these War Diaries during the relevant period for contexts. Regards Russ Hi Russ, I have just come across this topic and was wondering how you were able to provide an exact date of enlistment for the two men with near service numbers to Kibblewhite? Do they have surviving papers or do you have another source? I ask as I am researching the 11th Queen's (my grandfather's battalion) and am always on the lookout for additional details of those who served in the 11th Queen's. Many thanks in advance Sumon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 18 April Admin Share Posted 18 April 24 minutes ago, 11th Queen's said: I have just come across this topic and was wondering how you were able to provide an exact date of enlistment for the two men with near service numbers to Kibblewhite? Do they have surviving papers or do you have another source? Yes, I just searched for surviving Service Records for men with the nearest numbers that I could find, and then extracted the exact enlistment dates from those Records. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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