mikereme Posted 14 January Share Posted 14 January Hello Everyone, Would this great forum please tell me where did the red & black piping (hope that is correct name), on the Glengarry of Scottish units come from. I was initially told many moons ago it represents the "Thin Red Line" from the battle in Crimea but just need some clarity?... What does it represent? Is there a specific source that will clarify this if any? I thank you in anticipation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 14 January Share Posted 14 January (edited) On 14/01/2024 at 08:22, mikereme said: Hello Everyone, Would this great forum please tell me where did the red & black piping (hope that is correct name), on the Glengarry of Scottish units come from. I was initially told many moons ago it represents the "Thin Red Line" from the battle in Crimea but just need some clarity?... What does it represent? Is there a specific source that will clarify this if any? I thank you in anticipation 1. The origin relates to the tape threaded through the bottom edge of the universal knitted woollen bonnet that was issued to Highland regiments originally, but later to all regiments as a practical field headdress that replaced earlier caps made from annually expired uniform’s cloth. The knitted bonnets were cheap, resilient and practical and, unlike the old caps, needed no sizing. They were simply pulled on and the tape[s] that were threaded through tightened to fit and tied in a bow with the trailing ends hanging down the back as tails. In the Highland regiments the white and black tapes contrasting with the red band at the bottom of the bonnet gave a pleasing effect and appearance and over time, as the bonnets became more sophisticated, morphed into knitted decoration along the bottom edge. The centre of the manufacturing industry of these bonnets was in Kilmarnock in Scotland and over time the bonnet took that name. For over two centuries it was the bonnets manufacture that formed the main basis of employment and prosperity in the Kilmarnock area. In recent years this role had been taken over by Stewarton. 2. The thin red line (in its original form “streak”) relates to the stand of the 93rd (Sutherland) Highlanders (and their wives!) at Balaclava during the Crimean War. Later on and to commemorate this action the 93rd seem to have adopted an extra line of horizontal dicing alternating red and white and so missing out the central dark blue, or dark green, plus red of the other regiments. That feature was adopted by the new Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders who had been formed via a merger between the 93rd (Sutherland) and 91st (Argyll) Highlanders in July 1881. The diced band was later transferred to other forms of bonnet such as, e.g. the Glengarry, and in general dicing (aka chequering) became associated with first Highland, and then all, Scottish troops**. **it needs to be remembered that knitted bonnets were worn by Highland rebels at battles like Cullodden, but not by the King’s Lowland Scottish troops, who opposed them. Lowland regiments did not adopt the diced band on headdress until 1881. Edited 15 January by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikereme Posted 14 January Author Share Posted 14 January WOW thank you so much... nothing to do with the thin red line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 14 January Share Posted 14 January (edited) 17 minutes ago, mikereme said: WOW thank you so much... nothing to do with the thin red line? Point number two refers to the thin red line. The bonnet in general had nothing to do with it, just the central line of dicing being different in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders version of the bonnet to commemorate the battle at Balaclava, where the 93rd gained the sobriquet The Thin Red Line as the regiment faced a Russian cavalry charge on their own. Edited 14 January by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikereme Posted 14 January Author Share Posted 14 January Sorry please say this again... does this or does not represent the thin red line? Bit confused.. sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 14 January Share Posted 14 January (edited) 8 minutes ago, mikereme said: Sorry please say this again... does this or does not represent the thin red line? Bit confused.. sorry Why confused? What don’t you understand, I’ve just explained that the original bonnet dicing had nothing to do with the Thin Red Line? It was merely the tapes threaded through the edge to adjust the fit, long, long before the battle of Balaclava in the Crimean War! There are lots of uniform historian sources to this. Cecil CP Lawson is one example, WY Carman is another. Edited 14 January by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikereme Posted 14 January Author Share Posted 14 January It's just you mentioned "just the central line being different in the Argyle and Sutherland Highlanders version of the bonnet to commemorate tge battle of balaclava".... is this what I ask in my post if this is the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 14 January Share Posted 14 January (edited) c. 1854 colour sergeant with very clear dicing. Date very close to Thin Red Line. No connection to the said line whatsoever. Edited 14 January by Muerrisch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 14 January Share Posted 14 January (edited) 16 hours ago, mikereme said: It's just you mentioned "just the central line being different in the Argyle and Sutherland Highlanders version of the bonnet to commemorate tge battle of balaclava".... is this what I ask in my post if this is the case? Yes if you look at the central line of dicing it’s usually dark blue (as mentioned) or dark green (as mentioned) alternating with red. That was the most traditional form. The 93rd presumably adopted the different style to commemorate their action at the Battle of Balaclava and replaced the central line of dicing with white alternating with red, thus making themselves different to all the others who continued to wear the more traditional style. They thus became the only regiment with all three rows of dicing being red alternating with white. I do not know when they first did this and an example of that style can be seen in the illustrations dated 1831 below, perhaps indicating a greater antiquity than the Crimean War. Edited 15 January by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 14 January Share Posted 14 January (edited) This comes from a book published in 1831: The Scottish Gael By James Logan (1831) “The bonnet is thickened, by a peculiar process, into a body of considerable density**. The color is commonly dark blue, but it was formerly also black, or gray, and a narrow stripe of red, white, or green was often carried round the lower edge; and occasionally these were pleasingly combined. The chequer work, worn by the military, is now the common ornament, but it does not appear to be very ancient. According to General Stewart, it originated in the time of Montrose's wars ##, and represents the armorial bearing of the royal family. The Stewart's belt, or fess, is, however, chequy argent and azure. The bonnets terminate in a knot, generally of the same color, but often red, white, or black. They are usually augmented to a small tuft, and are sometimes formed of silk. I have heard it said that some of the officers, in the rebellion of 1745, had them of silver and gold fringe. Beautiful substitutes for the old chequer are now to be had of [from] those who furnish the costume.” **this was called ‘felting’ and achieved by boiling the wool using a special technique. ## around 1644. NB. The use of tapes to adjust the fit, and thus with their alternating colour create the dicing (chequering), predates this period. Edited 15 January by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikereme Posted 14 January Author Share Posted 14 January Thank you so much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 14 January Share Posted 14 January (edited) 15 hours ago, mikereme said: Thank you so much... I hope that you have understood now Mike, the chequering (aka ‘dicing’) goes back a really long way, as you can see quoted above by General Stewart. Centuries before the Crimean War. The "Fess Chequy” that he mentioned, in the terminology of European heraldry, is the name of the distinctive heraldic symbol of the great Scottish family of Stewart (included the Royal House). The "fess chequy" is a checkered blue and white band that stretches horizontally across the shield. NB. There were many sub branches of the Stewart Clan each with their own arms, but interestingly every one of them included the triple row of dicing. Edited 15 January by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikereme Posted 14 January Author Share Posted 14 January Hi Frogmile... yes thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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