Experimental helmets

[GRANVILLE]

Has anyone ever seen or even owned one of these and if any still exist, I wonder how many have been dismissed as foreign and not recognised for what they were?

David

 

[Andrew Upton]

What is the source of this quote David? That caption appears to be in error, as the ribbed type wasn't really experimental as such. They are generally accepted as being originally an early private purchase design, and as per the CS Militaria description "Made only of mild steel they were found not to be effective in the face of an even moderate velocity round as well as the ribbed surface tending to aid the projectile in penetration when hit . Banned for sale in Great Britain around the 1916 period it is believed that they were issued to Portuguese troops as a temporary measure.":

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30090857

https://www.csmilitaria.co.uk/shop.php?code=11966

https://maplecreekmilitaria.com/2022/04/02/portuguese-m16/

Edited 10 January by Andrew Upton

[GRANVILLE]

I too had always regarded them as of Portuguese origin. The photo and caption can be found on p570, Part 14 of 'I Was There' - edited by Sir John Hammerton. I would be reluctant to say he was wrong on this subject, although from time to time in the magazines, he does confess that certain information supplied by the readership for publication, has at a later date been corrected by others.

It just crossed my mind, that if the caption is taken as being correct, then is it possible that the Portuguese helmets came out of rejected British experimental helmets?

 

David     

[Andrew Upton]

3 minutes ago, GRANVILLE said:

I too had always regarded them as of Portuguese origin. The photo and caption can be found on p570, Part 14 of 'I Was There' - edited by Sir John Hammerton. I would be reluctant to say he was wrong on this subject, although from time to time in the magazines, he does confess that certain information supplied by the readership for publication, has at a later date been corrected by others.

It just crossed my mind, that if the caption is taken as being correct, then is it possible that the Portuguese helmets came out of rejected British experimental helmets? 

Even today among specialists certain parts of the history of this type of helmets is contested and uncertain, but personally I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt over Sir John Hammerton...

https://maplecreekmilitaria.com/2022/04/02/portuguese-m16/

"...The Portuguese Model 1916 was used by the Portuguese Expeditionary Corp (Corpo Expedicionário Português, CEP) on the Western Front during the First World War. The helmet was modeled after helmets made by the Mackintosh company in Britain. These were supplied to hatters for resale as private purchase helmets, mainly for use by officers. This style of private purchase helmet was eventually banned by the British army because of the very weak protection it afforded the user. Sources disagree about where the Portuguese M16s were made. According to a description from the UK militaria dealer Regimentals, these helmets were made by Mackintosh and supplied to Portuguese troops.[1] If correct, the helmets may have been sourced from inventories that were unsellable because of the British army’s ban on this type. According to another source, they were made in Portugal. Samples sent to the UK for evaluations revealed glaring problems.[2] The issues included the poor anti-ballistic qualities of the weak, lightweight metal used. In addition, the ribbed feature caused shrapnel fragments to catch and penetrate the helmet rather than deflecting them. Because of these defects, the Portuguese M16 has the distinction of being the worst helmet of the First World War...."

[GRANVILLE]

Personally, I would not have thought Britain would have needed to turn to the Portuguese to see what sort of helmets they were producing, and find it hard to imagine they were producing any before we were. I can see them being made for private purchase and being evaluated and dismissed as not satisfactory, at which point I could see them being taken off our hands at a knock down price.  

[Chasemuseum]

Given Portugal's enormous difficulties in supporting the CEP and with the change of Government in Portugal during the war exacerbating the support issues to the CEP I find it very hard to accept that the helmets were made in Portugal. I have owned a pair of these for over 30 years. The shells are very light. I have never carried out a hardness test but for a variety of aspects of my observation of the helmets I would consider them to be a fairly soft "mild steel". Frankly a very poor helmet in comparison to a typical Brodie.

[GRANVILLE]

Just by way of a follow-up, don't know why I didn't consider doing this in the first place. I've taken a look at my copy of Chris Pollendine's Campaign vol 2, 1915 and what do you actually get on the cover but one of these fluted helmets, Inside is a detailed description of the development of the protective helmet, starting with the French Adrian. The fluted helmets of the type shown in the OP are recognised as very early British, private attempts to provide a protective helmet - available for private purchase. They were of mild steel and magnetic and of very limited protection, which is why they were not adopted by the War Office. What I did find interesting in Chris's book is reference to a company called Sissons of Sheffield. Although Sheffield based, the company also had a large mill at Calver in the Peak District (the mill used in the TV drama, Colditz). In the 1980s, when in the police, I had to attend the mill concerning a burglary. It was still producing stainless steel bowls and the like at that time. Conversation with an aging foreman revealed that he understood the company had had something to do with the production of steel helmets - gong back to the First World War and it was his understanding that the company had made use of a large tureen press to effect the necessary bowl shape they were experimenting with.