Could artillery shoot down observation balloons ?

[nils d]

On 07/02/2024 at 06:36, stevenbecker said:

What did the Germans say about bring down Allied Ballons?

I take it these German Balloons were all types or mainly the Parseval-Siegsfeld and or Drachen-type type balloon .

What about British and French types? (the Caquot or other types)

I did notice this about the Yanks

In total, there were 35 American balloon companies in France during World War I; they ascended 5,866 times, adding up to 6,832 hours in the air. Their balloons were attacked 89 times; 35 burned, 12 were shot down by enemy fire and one floated into enemy lines. Of all 116 parachute jumps from balloons, the parachutes – made of silk – never failed to open

Just to make it clear Steven , are you saying that German artillery shot down 12 US balloons?

[Jasta72s]

Quote

I take it these German Balloons were all types or mainly the Parseval-Siegsfeld and or Drachen-type type balloon .

What about British and French types? (the Caquot or other types)

The most German balloons in WWI were Drachen and Ae (a German made copy of a British Caquot captured in 1916).

[stevenbecker]

No, the Yanks are saying they had some 116 balloons brought down for one reason or another.

Of cause they don't give a time peroid for these losses

The list of Germans balloons is nice but I did wonder what were our losses from German fire

[nils d]

Cross and Cockade journal is due to publish a list of kite balloon casualties shortly which might answer Stevens questions.

[healdav]

On 09/02/2024 at 18:06, Jasta72s said:

The most German balloons in WWI were Drachen and Ae (a German made copy of a British Caquot captured in 1916).

Both allied and German balloon observers had parachutes, where pilots did not (at least the British). When a German observer needed to get out, the small seat he was sat on fell away and he went through the bottom of the basket on a static line.

There is one of these baskets with seat in the Wehrtechnische museum in Koblenz (a place you really do need to go to for any number of reason - basically its a military junk yard with everything from the aforesaid balloon basket to midget submarines, Hind helicopter, bridging equipment, Trabant armoured car!, V2, - and that's on the ground floor.

[Old Forge]

On 07/02/2024 at 13:03, Chris Henschke said:

There is a specific reference to shelling balloons in one of the training leaflets issued by the Inspector General, Training in October 1918.

Attached is the extract from Training Leaflet No. 9, Artillery Notes for Pilots and Observers, R.A.F.

The 18 pounder was a gun, not a howitzer. With the pole trail, it had limited elevation (from memory, different marks improved this from c15 degrees to almost 40). It's clear from other posts here that artillery engaged balloons - and with some success. However, this extract and the VI Corps HCA reference to causing balloons to be hauled down might well be referring to the shelling of the ground equipment.

Richard

[Cnock]

Hello,

Yes the guns could shoot down observation balloons.

Before the start of the 3rd Battle of Ypres, the Germans had positioned in Langemark near the Houthulst Forrest a turret of a battle ship, armed with 2 x 24 cm naval guns. The turret rested on a concrete gun pit.

A special unit (Messtrupp) calculated the traject of the shell, setting of the fuse, sidewind, etc.

In 2 days they were able to destroy 11 British balloons at a distance of more than 10 kms.

But the British quickly discovered the position of the guns (they produced a lot of yellow smoke when firing). The British artillery started to shell the position and a shell exploded near the turret. This was the signal for the Germans to remove the guns.

The turret with the two 24 cm guns.

[Cnock]

The turret after the Germans removed the guns.

The gun pit is still there (on private property

 

Cnock

[Simon Cains]

1 hour ago, Cnock said:

Hello,

Yes the guns could shoot down observation balloons.

Before the start of the 3rd Battle of Ypres, the Germans had positioned in Langemark near the Houthulst Forrest a turret of a battle ship, armed with 2 x 24 cm naval guns. The turret rested on a concrete gun pit.

A special unit (Messtrupp) calculated the traject of the shell, setting of the fuse, sidewind, etc.

In 2 days they were able to destroy 11 British balloons at a distance of more than 10 kms.

But the British quickly discovered the position of the guns (they produced a lot of yellow smoke when firing). The British artillery started to shell the position and a shell exploded near the turret. This was the signal for the Germans to remove the guns.

The turret with the two 24 cm guns.

Thank you for that detailed information.  Certainly less dangerous than sending pilots over to try to shoot them down, flying into the enemy AA ( Archie).

[Muerrisch]

On 08/01/2024 at 15:32, pierssc said:

Wouldn't it be easier to shoot at whatever the balloon was tethered to on the ground?

Cut the cable and the balloon's off east!

 

Not necessarily .............. any horizontal direction, plus upwards ................. !

[pierssc]

Upwards of course, but the prevailing wind was from West to East.

[Muerrisch]

Point of information [as Alf Garnett said].

It is not the "prevailing wind" that matters, it is the actual winds on the day, which themselves will vary with height.

Thus: in a warm sector not much veering or backing, just an increase in speed; ahead of a warm front veering with height, behind a cold front backing with height.

I learned something in 41 years as a meteorologist.

Oh! and my father flew barrage balloons defending Coventry, the Suez Canal and the D Day ships. He said that on some occasions the wind at height was so strong that, if it opposed the ship's direction, it acted as a brake. As for the lethal static electricity charge created.......................

Just sayin'

[Old Forge]

3 hours ago, Muerrisch said:

Not necessarily .............. any horizontal direction, plus upwards ................. !

Spot on - any gunner will happily sight along the axis of the bore and crank the elevation - witness D Battery, 56 Heavy Regiment (Spike Milligan's Own) firing for 169 Queen's Brigade at Monte Stella. Deployed forward of the 25 pounders, no OP and half their kit somewhere in a traffic jam outside Salerno, Sgt Mick Ryan 'blew the top off the mountain' by first peering up the barrel of his 7.2" How then winding the elevation up a bit.

Cheers,

Richard 

Edited 11 March by Old Forge

[pierssc]

4 hours ago, Muerrisch said:

It is not the "prevailing wind" that matters, it is the actual winds on the day, which themselves will vary with height.

Fair enough.  I'm not going to argue with a meteorologist about wind!  It was just a remark that an gas balloon would be off and away once untethered.

 

 

[Cnock]

Hello,

Yes the guns could shoot down observation balloons.

Before the start of the 3rd Battle of Ypres, the Germans had positioned in Langemark near the Houthulst Forrest a turret of a battle ship, armed with 2 x 24 cm naval guns. The turret rested on a concrete gun pit.

A special unit (Messtrupp) calculated the traject of the shell, setting of the fuse, sidewind, etc.

In 2 days they were able to destroy 11 British balloons at a distance of more than 10 kms.

But the British quickly discovered the position of the guns (they produced a lot of yellow smoke when firing). The British artillery started to shell the position and a shell exploded near the turret. This was the signal for the Germans to remove the guns.

[Cnock]

The goal of the German long range shooting at balloons wat not destroying them, but to hole them with as much shrapnel,  they had to be hauled down.

Cnock.

[Stereoview Paul]

Just for interest one of our observation balloons showing telephone communications and the parachute

[nils d]

On 11/03/2024 at 16:09, Simon Cains said:

Thank you for that detailed information.  Certainly less dangerous than sending pilots over to try to shoot them down, flying into the enemy AA ( Archie).

I think lm right in saying that the aeroplane was cheaper than the artillery shell ,if you want to look at it that way.