Raster Scanning Posted 3 January Share Posted 3 January I have had this jacket for at least 25 years and it has always been a bit of a mystery. I have always thought of it as a made up one however I don't even have much idea about the basic jacket. It is badged to a Canadian with Canada buttons titles and etc. Any thoughts on its history or even the battle patches appreciated? As I said I really don't know much at all and assume it is a wrong un. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 3 January Share Posted 3 January The general design of the jacket appears to be British, but whether it’s a reproduction or contracted as a theatrical garment I don’t know. It only has a single pleat between shoulder patch and collar and that was a post war (1922) modification if I recall correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 3 January Share Posted 3 January (edited) I have a similar one and am similarly uncertain. Mine came as part of a lot purportedly from one individual. It is thicker, softer wool than my post 1922 jackets and also has one oddity in that the epaulettes have cotton lower surfaces. The claim of "late war Canadian Jacket" (but with many of the hallmarks of post 1922 "Jacket, ORs, All Services except Scottish Regiments") appears quite frequently on auction sites like eBay - usually showing what looks to me to be a standard post 1922 jacket. If it would be useful I can dig it out and photograph it. Chris Edit just noticed the scalloped pocket flaps on yours - I do not believe mine has those. Edited 3 January by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 3 January Share Posted 3 January 30 minutes ago, 4thGordons said: I have a similar one and am similarly uncertain. Mine came as part of a lot purportedly from one individual. It is thicker, softer wool than my post 1922 jackets and also has one oddity in that the epaulettes have cotton lower surfaces. The claim of "late war Canadian Jacket" (but with many of the hallmarks of post 1922 "Jacket, ORs, All Services except Scottish Regiments") appears quite frequently on auction sites like eBay - usually showing what looks to me to be a standard post 1922 jacket. If it would be useful I can dig it out and photograph it. Chris Edit just noticed the scalloped pocket flaps on yours - I do not believe mine has those. Like you I’m puzzled by it. It seems in suspiciously good condition for a garment ostensibly 100-years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raster Scanning Posted 3 January Author Share Posted 3 January 1 hour ago, 4thGordons said: I have a similar one and am similarly uncertain. Mine came as part of a lot purportedly from one individual. It is thicker, softer wool than my post 1922 jackets and also has one oddity in that the epaulettes have cotton lower surfaces. The claim of "late war Canadian Jacket" (but with many of the hallmarks of post 1922 "Jacket, ORs, All Services except Scottish Regiments") appears quite frequently on auction sites like eBay - usually showing what looks to me to be a standard post 1922 jacket. If it would be useful I can dig it out and photograph it. Chris Edit just noticed the scalloped pocket flaps on yours - I do not believe mine has those. Thanks Chris I will check the epaulette tabs to see if mine also has cotton lower surfaces. 38 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Like you I’m puzzled by it. It seems in suspiciously good condition for a garment ostensibly 100-years old. Thanks very much, I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 3 January Share Posted 3 January (edited) Some snaps for comparison. Oddities: Tan lining (most wartime jackets I have seen have white), the "rough-cut" edges (most British SD jackets I have seen do not have this, thicker greener wool material, Lined epaulettes and pocket flaps, no stamping or label (or remains) single (larger) throat closure hook/eye. It does (unlike the post 1922 jackets) have two darts under the collar. Chris Edited 3 January by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 4 January Share Posted 4 January I would say that this jacket is either a total fake or a 1922 pattern jacket retrofitted to appear as a CEF uniform (as others have noted). Collar badges are for the 39th Battalion that was never a part of the Canadian Corps in France remaining in Britain to provide drafts to the Canadian Corps in the field. Yet, the jacket shows Canadian Corps formation patches on both sleeves that do not appear genuine. The blue rectangle is for the 2nd Division which overlays a truncated red square above, The closest actual formation sign is for the 26th Battalion (from St John, New Brunswick). This patch uses the entire red square. An officer's version (that adds the gold embroidery) of this formation sign is below (from kaisersbunker.com). The pointed pocket flaps also look suspicious. There are too many things off base for this jacket to be authentic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 4 January Share Posted 4 January 2 hours ago, gordon92 said: I would say that this jacket is either a total fake or a 1922 pattern jacket retrofitted to appear as a CEF uniform (as others have noted). Any thoughts on mine @gordon92? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 4 January Share Posted 4 January Chris..... The conspicuous feature of your jacket is the collar badges for the Canadian 42nd Lanark and Renfrew Infantry Battalion. Here is the lineage of this regiment (from Wikipedia): The Lanark and Renfrew Scottish Regiment Originated on 5 October 1866, in Brockville, Ontario, as the 42nd Brockville Battalion of Infantry. Redesignated on 1 December 1897, as the 42nd Lanark and Renfrew Battalion of Infantry. Redesignated on 8 May 1900, as the 42nd Lanark and Renfrew Regiment. Redesignated on 12 March 1920, as The Lanark and Renfrew Regiment. Redesignated on 15 July 1927, as The Lanark and Renfrew Scottish Regiment. Redesignated on 7 November 1940, as the 2nd (Reserve) Battalion, The Lanark and Renfrew Scottish Regiment. Redesignated on 15 September 1944, as The Lanark and Renfrew Scottish Regiment (Reserve). Converted to air defence artillery on 1 April 1946, and redesignated as the 59th Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment (Lanark and Renfrew Scottish), RCA. Converted to infantry on 1 December 1959, and redesignated as The Lanark and Renfrew Scottish Regiment. Converted to air defence artillery on 10 November 1992, and redesignated as the 1st Air Defence Regiment (Lanark and Renfrew Scottish), RCA.[2] Converted to field artillery in 2011 and redesignated 42nd Field Artillery Regiment (Lanark and Renfrew Scottish), RCA. If the above is accurate (and it seems to be as https://diane-duncan.com/2018/01/30/lanark-county-military-history/ provides the same chronology), the dates of the badges' manufacture appear to be in the 1897-1900 window which pre-dates service dress. Of course, use of older badges can persist for years after a changeover. Nonetheless, there seems to be a disconnect between the badges and the likely manufacture date of the jacket which looks like late WW1 at best and more likely post 1922. BTW, the tan lining was seen in late WW1 jackets. So, I would say that there are inconsistent features of this jacket that remain unexplained. Hope this helps. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle of loos Posted 5 January Share Posted 5 January (edited) good morning, here is 2 SD Patt. 1902 : 1st : 2nd : regards Michel Edited 5 January by battle of loos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 5 January Share Posted 5 January I notice that your 2nd jacket has a name written inside. Have you tried to research this soldier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle of loos Posted 5 January Share Posted 5 January it's for the first SD. I have moving the picture in the good SD. No, Ihaven't search this name. but I searche to identify the white stamp under the bag pocket. michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 5 January Share Posted 5 January 9 hours ago, battle of loos said: good morning, here is 2 SD Patt. 1902 : regards Michel Thank you - those are excellent reference pictures. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16thBNCanScotJim Posted 5 January Share Posted 5 January On 04/01/2024 at 10:34, gordon92 said: I would say that this jacket is either a total fake or a 1922 pattern jacket retrofitted to appear as a CEF uniform (as others have noted). Collar badges are for the 39th Battalion that was never a part of the Canadian Corps in France remaining in Britain to provide drafts to the Canadian Corps in the field. Yet, the jacket shows Canadian Corps formation patches on both sleeves that do not appear genuine. The blue rectangle is for the 2nd Division which overlays a truncated red square above, The closest actual formation sign is for the 26th Battalion (from St John, New Brunswick). This patch uses the entire red square. An officer's version (that adds the gold embroidery) of this formation sign is below (from kaisersbunker.com). The pointed pocket flaps also look suspicious. There are too many things off base for this jacket to be authentic. Hi guys, I would concur that the patches do not appear accurate. Here is a great link for our CEF unit insignia; https://www.canadiansoldiers.com/insignia/formations/cefform.htm Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 5 January Share Posted 5 January (edited) Quick bit of browsing of images online show pointed pocket flaps as on the originally posted jacket on some Canadian 7 button tunics (sorry I am not sure what the official name for them is) Chris Quick browse of my pics shows almost all of my images of Canadian 7 button jackets show pointed pocket flaps (but also round/"mandarin" high collars rather than stand/fall collars) couple of examples Edited 5 January by 4thGordons add pics and info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 5 January Share Posted 5 January 13 minutes ago, 16thBNCanScotJim said: Hi guys, I would concur that the patches do not appear accurate. Here is a great link for our CEF unit insignia; https://www.canadiansoldiers.com/insignia/formations/cefform.htm Jim Jim, Thank you for posting this link. I would agree that this site along with the CEF Study Group site are a must for CEF enthusiasts. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 5 January Share Posted 5 January 31 minutes ago, 4thGordons said: Quick bit of browsing of images online show pointed pocket flaps as on the originally posted jacket on some Canadian 7 button tunics (sorry I am not sure what the official name for them is) Chris Quick browse of my pics shows almost all of my images of Canadian 7 button jackets show pointed pocket flaps (but also round/"mandarin" high collars rather than stand/fall collars) couple of examples Chris.... The 7-button Canadian Service Dress jacket in drab serge is referred to as Pattern 1903. This is a great reference work for those interested in Canadian jackets (credit to Frogsmile for originally finding this): DRAB SERGE AND KHAKI DRILL:T H E F O R E I G N S E R V I C E , U N I V E R S A L S E R V I C E , BATTLE A N D C O M B A T DRESS J A C K E T S ^OF T H E C A N A D I A N ARMY, 1899-2003 I cannot find a 5-button OR jacket with pointed pointed flaps on both breast and hip pockets in this comprehensive publication that would be a match to the OP's jacket. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle of loos Posted 5 January Share Posted 5 January thank's for the link. very nice. michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 5 January Share Posted 5 January Another thanks for the link. A great reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now