Silver War Badge RN45956

[Grandrew2]

Good Afternoon

I am hoping some kind soul will put me out of my misery and help me work out the full name of W J Williams and his Operational Number. The handwriting is difficult to decipher. I am trying to find his papers

Any help/suggestion gratefully received

 

Many thanks

 

Andrew

 

[PRC]

4 minutes ago, Grandrew2 said:

Operational Number.

I would say "N K" as in Not Known. The left hand page has a Chief Petty Officer Ashby who is similarly shown.

Cheers,
Peter

[Grandrew2]

Thanks Peter for your prompt reply. I hadn't spotted Ashby it makes sense. I am reading him correctly as W J Williams? I suppose I can hope the badge number is on his papers? Fairly common name and initials which is a blow

 

Best Wishes

 

Andrew

[PRC]

3 hours ago, Grandrew2 said:

I am reading him correctly as W J Williams?

In terms of the letter shaping:-

Line below looks like J41441 Telegraphist A C. Wood, badge issued November 11^th 1919.

From the National Archive catalogue that would appear to J41441Arthur Charles Wood. Invalided out of the service on the 6^th November 1919. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6940375

W in Wood looks identical to the first letter of the surname of the man you are interested in and the first initial. Surname either has 7 or 8 characters

W_ _ _ _ _ _ (_) W. _.

Line below Wood looks like K23521 Stoker(?) J. Keeble, badge issued November 11^th 1919.

That ON in the National Archive catalogue belongs to a William James Henry Wilby, but there is a K20351 John Keeble invalided 4^th December 1919. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7027651

W_ _ _ _ _ _ (_) W. J.

And two lines below J. Keeble there appears to be a J7088 AB H. Williams, badge issued November 11^th 1919.

From the National Archive catalogue that would appear to be a J7088 Herbert Williams. He was invalided out of the service on the 4^th December 1919. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6859295

Williams W. J.

For me from that perspective a W.J. Williams would appear be the name you are interested in

Sadly couldn’t see a badge number recorded on any of those statements of services, but I was only viewing the watermarked versions. It does however look to be contemporary discharges rather than retrospective ones for individuals honourably discharged earlier in the war

Cheers,
Peter

[Grandrew2]

Thanks Peter

It is not just me then it is going to be a bit tougher to nail him down with a number "Not Known". Thanks for confirming you think it is Williams too

He is one of the last badges issued in 1919

Cheers

 

Andrew

[PRC]

2 hours ago, Grandrew2 said:

It is not just me then it is going to be a bit tougher to nail him down with a number "Not Known". Thanks for confirming you think it is Williams too

I don't know if it's the same for the Navy, but the vast majority of Silver War Badges issued for men in the Army was because they were no longer physically fit for war service - whether through wounds, accidental injuries or sickness. Many of these, if not all, would lead to claims for War Disability Pensions. What remains of the Ministry of Pensions ledger cards \ records cards for those claims are available as (low quality) transcriptions on Ancestry or as images on Fold 3. The images on Fold 3 can be accessed by either direct subscription \ waiting for the next free weekend, or there is a low cost option of just being able to see those records on Fold 3 by joining the Western Front Association - it was members of the WFA who originally rescued the cards from a builders skip!

Perhaps someone like forum member @Matlock1418 can advise if it's possible to narrow the search to Royal Navy men (RN, RNR, RNVR and RND) and whose last rank was AB - would they be recorded as Able Boatman or Able Seaman? I suspect it will then be a Mk1 eyeball check to see if any have a pension commencing November \ December 1919.

Cheers,
Peter

[Matlock1418]

3 hours ago, PRC said:

Perhaps someone like forum member @Matlock1418 can advise if it's possible to narrow the search to Royal Navy men (RN, RNR, RNVR and RND) and whose last rank was AB - would they be recorded as Able Boatman or Able Seaman? I suspect it will then be a Mk1 eyeball check to see if any have a pension commencing November \ December 1919.

Various tricks and experience can help pension record searches but the site's not overly sophisticated in that respect/level of detail so it's commonly comes down to the Mk 1 eyeball in the end.  I've struggled so far with this one.  

M

[Grandrew2]

Thanks for looking M I checked out the Western Front Pensions but no joy. Couple of W J Williams came up as AB but no hint of a SWB being issued,J17926 and J17073. At least I know I am not missing something obvious thanks for taking the time to look

 

Best Wishes

 

Andrew

[Matlock1418]

20 minutes ago, Grandrew2 said:

J17926

31.5.16 Lost with ship = So no SWB as you no doubt determined

20 minutes ago, Grandrew2 said:

J17073

William James WILLIAMS = More possible as he was discharged 3-12-19 and made an unspecified disability claim

Awarded 8/- pw from 4-12-19 to 2-3-20 [under the 1919 RW that was 20% disability rate for a pension Class V / AB seaman]

44 Upper Denburn, Aberdeen

From a pension index card at WFA/Fold3

Service record at TNA: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6869187 - Notes he was Invalided - I note KC No 1193 issued 28/5/20 [King's Certificate?? - But I don't know how that might potentially link to a 45956 numbered SWB???]  Think we might need the likes of @horatio2 to please better interpret this record, one way or another.

M

Edited 2 January by Matlock1418
source pic info

[Matlock1418]

Interesting to note H[arry] CASHMORE, M2330 also was invalided and got KC No 9764 Issued 3-1-20 so I think there could be link to a SWB [but I'm challenged to see it - beyond "Served with honour and was disabled in the Great War. Honourably discharged"]

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7038580

M

Edited 2 January by Matlock1418
TNA link

[horatio2]

J.17073 was discharged invalided on 4 December 1919, so it is no surprise to see a King's Certificate being issued six months later on 25 May 1920. It is more surprising to consider that a SWB would be issued on 11 November 1919, a full three weeks before his discharge.

Unlike KCs, the issue of SWBs is not often noted in ADM 188 ledger records like this one.

I note that at the same time he was also being lined up for discharge Services No Longer Required (SNLR) for a bad disciplinary reord.

[PRC]

6 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

It is more surprising to consider that a SWB would be issued on 11 November 1919, a full three weeks before his discharge.

When I did a check of names looking for a handwriting match to confirm the name being looked at was W.J. Williams, one of the candidates was an H. Williams - see post above.

His SWB was issued November 11th, 1919 and he too was discharged 4th December 1919.

Whether there was a push on to get them through before the SWB was discontinued or if that was general practice I don't know.

Cheers,
Peter

[Grandrew2]

Many thanks for your kind replies guys.

W J Williams J17073 gets a 1915 trio and on balance of probabilities he looks most likely

He got about a bit. Born in Dorset and ends up being discharged to Aberdeen

 

Best wishes

 

Andrew