Train Movement July 1916: Lillers to Amiens - Saluex (St Saveur)

[Iamsmudge]

Wondering if we have any logistics people among us, or those with knowledge of the train routes in use for July 1916.

2nd Worcesters made their last assault in the Cuinchy region on the 1st July before starting their movement towards Mametz Wood and the Somme.

War diaries for the 8th July state that they entrained Lillers, where the train left at 10:50pm and reached Saleux (Amiens) at 6 a.m the following day. It then says that they walked from Saleux to St Sauveur, 9 miles over 3.5 hours. Considering there is a line that comes through St Sauveur from the north via Noyelles-sur-mur, I'm guessing they didn't come that way, as it would seem a bit bonkers to then walk back that way.

Did they possibly travel back as far as Rouen and then into Saleux from the south?

Grateful if anyone has any records regarding troop movements by rail from Lillers to Amiens for that period. (July 1916)

[DavidOwen]

I think you need a railway expert to help answer this one Ian.

 

Good luck with the research.

[Iamsmudge]

Thank you.

I have found a couple articles including one on 'The Long Long Trail' that confirm the existence of routes in use at the time. The red route sees them travel through St Sauveur NW of Amiens. The blue route up from Le Havre direction would come into Saleux, SW of Amiens.

What's clear is that they:

1. Left Lillers (northern most red pin)
2. Arrived in Saluex (blue pin)
3. Walked to St Sauver (red pin)
4. Continued on foot from St Sauveur towards Mametz (southern most black pins)

Whats unclear is whether they simply traveled through St Sauveur to Saleux by train and then walked back, or whether the northern red route went first towards Le Havre and then back to Saluex. Both of which seem strange.

There is also a train route Bethune to Amiens via Lens & Albert, but seems this was not in use July 1916 as that line zizags either side of the front.

[BradleyShoebottom]

The answers lie in this book "Transportation on the Western Front 1914-1918" https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.$b633844&seq=144 Pages 92A and B and 136A. The short answer is that the French still controlled rail movement on many North-South lines since they had an army between the BEF and the coast and needed to get supplies from Paris. The BEF drew its supplies from Calais and Boulogne for the norther Armies and Dieppe and Le Havre for the southern Armies. The British had to request "slots" for lateral movement. The line from Amiens to Abbeville was not available to the British. So the route would have been St Pol to Frevent to Abbeville to Dieppe to Cerques (east of Rouen) to Saleaux. This was dictated by the lines from  St Pol to Cerques being return routes to the British base at Le Havre. At Cerques, the train could then move forward to Amiens. The troops called inter-army moves "Strategic moves" because it involved GHQ in creating the transportation plan.

[Iamsmudge]

Fantastic. Thank you very much.

That's made my night. And a digital resource to boot.

Next Whisky is in your honour.