German Merchant Ship Captured 6 Aug 1914 by HMS Argyll?

[Buffnut453]

Ok...this should be my last HMS Argyll for a while.  The Wikipedia entry for HMS Argyll and other online references state that she captured a German merchant ship on 6 August 1914.  Given how soon this was after the outbreak of the Great War, I'd expect there to be some mention somewhere of the German vessel's capture...but I can find no details anywhere from the sources that are available to me.

I'm sure if I can get the ship's name, I'll be able to find out more, perhaps to include a photograph of her.  

Do any GWF cognoscenti know which ship was captured by HMS Argyll?

Many, MANY thanks in advance.

Edited 26 December , 2023 by Buffnut453

[horatio2]

I have had no luck tracking down this "capture". In his "THE GRAND FLEET  1914-1916.  ITS CREATION, DEVELOPMENT AND WORK" Admiral Jellicoe gives a narrative of the movements of the Battle Fleet and accompanying cruisers in the early days of August 1914.   -   https://www.naval-history.net/WW1Book-Adm_Jellicoe-Grand_Fleet.htm  A word-search for "Argyll" and "3rd Cruiser Squadron" will show no such "capture"

It appears ARGYLL was coaling at Scapa on 5 August and Jellicoe noted the following reports received on 6 August:-

"(a) Two German cruisers were reported passing Trondhjem going north. (This came from the Admiralty.)

(b) Four torpedo-boats had been seen off the northwest end of the Shetlands going north. (This was a local report.)

(c) The German liner Kronprinzessin Cecilie was stated to have passed through the Stronsay Firth, Orkneys, bound east, during the night of the 5th-6th. (Local report.) The destroyer Oak was despatched to search the vicinity of the Stronsay and Westray Firths, but obtained no confirmation of the report.

(d) It was reported that the Germans had established a base in Lat. 62 N. on the Norwegian coast (the exact position unknown)."

The capture of a German ship by his ships on the second day of hostilities would surely have merited a mention.

Edited 28 December , 2023 by horatio2

[horatio2]

Apart  from ARGYLL and the 3rd Cruiser Squadron, it should be noted that the 10th Cruiser Squadron was also at large starting to enforce the blockade of Germeny. The first into action was HMS GRAFTON: at 0830 on 5 August in the Clyde approaches she took th German tramp WILHELM BEHRENS and sent her into Greenock with a prize crew.   https://www.naval-history.net/OWShips-WW1-05-HMS_Grafton.htm  Laterthat same day HMS GIBRALTAR Boarded the German steamer MARIE GLAESEZ and sent her into Greenock.   https://www.naval-history.net/OWShips-WW1-05-HMS_Gibraltar.htm

On 6 August the 10th Cruiser Squadron was concentrated at Scapa Flow. Early on 8 August GRAFTON and GIBRALTAR took and sank the German sailing trawlers GEESTE and DELME.

Unless found otherwise, I think the above events may have been conflated with ARGYLL.

[Buffnut453]

Many thanks, @horatio2, for those detailed replies.  Like you, I'd have expected the capture of a German merchantman so early in the conflict to be reported, which is why I was so confused by references I found online to the event.  

One online reference to the event lists their source as p.13 of Gardiner, Robert & Gray, Randal, eds. (1985). Conway's All the World's Fighting Ships 1906–1921. Annapolis, Maryland: Naval Institute Press.  I'd be surprised if such a general reference had reliable information not covered in the references you've mentioned.  

Since the year isn't explicitly mentioned in the online references, there is a slim chance that they actually mean 6 August 1915.  However, that date still doesn't deliver any suitable results.  

Seems like the entire event is, as you point out, an incorrect conflation of HMS Argyll with other known events.  I'd be delighted to be proved wrong but it seems the most likely explanation.  

[KizmeRD]

In advance of hostilities being declared, and with the help of Lloyd’s, the Admiralty had been keeping track of the locations and world-wide movements of German merchant shipping, so much so that within one week of the outbreak of war some 245 German merchant ships had been captured (mostly detained in Allied controlled ports, or choke points like the Suez Canal - but also including a number of ships intercepted on the high seas). A further 1,059 were interned in neutral ports, and in addition to this, there were 221 German merchant ships bottled-up the Baltic, no longer able to engage in distant overseas trade. This was therefore quite a strategic and economic success for the Allies.

HMS Roxburgh and HMS Argyll (3CS) were out patrolling northern waters near to coast of Norway at the time, and they are believed by several sources to have been involved in the joint interception and capture of a (as yet un-named) German merchant ship.

No doubt other RN ships (incl. 10CS) were also similarly engaged in rounding-up German shipping too - and all this was all happening in August 1914 (not later in 1915).

The claim seems perfectly reasonable to me, and I’ve no good reason to doubt it - but further research would likely add detail to the story.

MB

[horatio2]

Another day - another theory!

The logs of ARGYLL and ROXBURGH in ADM 53 at TNA could reveal all. A pity they have not been transcribed.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1522825

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1498402

[KizmeRD]

I won’t be heading to Kew anytime soon, but my suspicion is that the British cruisers were involved in the capture of the German sailing cutter ‘Berlin’. There may be some additional information to be found in Admiralty Court records - as with any ‘Prize’.

MB

 

[Buffnut453]

On 29/12/2023 at 03:30, KizmeRD said:

I won’t be heading to Kew anytime soon, but my suspicion is that the British cruisers were involved in the capture of the German sailing cutter ‘Berlin’. There may be some additional information to be found in Admiralty Court records - as with any ‘Prize’.

MB

 

Thanks for those insights.  I may be headed to Kew in late January.  Any pointers as to relevant Admiralty Court records?  A search on UKNA comes up with 115 results which is a lot of records...and most are probably irrelevant.  Sorry if this is a numptie question but I've never investigated war prizes before.

BTW, I did find this illustration in Vol 2 of the Waverley Book Co.'s "History of the Great War."  I suspect it's intended to be generic rather than specific....it's certainly not HMS Argyll because the bow is very different.  However, it does illustrate the sorts of capture operations the RN was engaged in early during the Great War.