Officer Training at Quetta College 1916

[NWFresearcher]

Hello. 

I'm currently researching my Grandfather who was commissioned into the Indian Army in 1917 at the age of 19. He completed his Officer training at Quetta. He was born in South Wales, an area economically depressed and I think he wanted to "try something different", I'm trying to find out any more detail - both general and specific. I haven't yet been to the British Library to see his military records but I'm planning to do so shortly. He completed a 15 year commission with the final rank of Captain. 

1. Is there any information about the training programme as a Gentleman Cadet? (it looks like he did a 5 / 6 month course at Quetta in 1916 before being commissioned) 

2. He came from a working class background in South Wales - I suspect his father, pushed him hard on his education. My reading so far suggests his entry, as an Officer in the Indian Army, was by competitive examination. How did this work in practice?  Totally guessing would he have seen adverts in newspapers? Conscious subscription was introduced in Britain in 1916 under Military Service Act. 

3. I'm also confused at Quetta college. Was it a Staff College used for training Officers for Staff / Senior rank or was it a training college for Gentlemen cadets? maybe it was both?

4. On the personal side he married young, at the age of 20. I thought it was either not allowed or frowned upon if you married so young in your career?

Any information would be really appreciated - I'm trying to build up a detailed picture as possible - as to what it was like for a working class lad "from the Valleys" to complete a 15 year commission in India.

Many thanks, 

Alex 

 

[PRC]

Hi @NWFresearcher and welcome to the forum

We had a very, very long thread trying to identify officers fates from various pre-war graduation and other group photographs for the Quetta Staff College. https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/302548-photograph-staff-college-quetta-1911

I remember some of the discussions went into the subsequent fate of the college, and not wanting to mis-lead you I've tried both a forum search and a quick skim read. The only link I could quickly uncover included the information "The Staff College, Quetta, closed down after the outbreak of the First World War, on 15 September 1915. The accommodation was transformed into a Cadet College to train young men for grant of commission in the British and Indian armies. It was only in 1919 that the College started functioning again."
https://www.dssc.gov.in/history/The Quetta Heritage.pdf

15 hours ago, NWFresearcher said:

3. I'm also confused at Quetta college. Was it a Staff College used for training Officers for Staff / Senior rank or was it a training college for Gentlemen cadets? maybe it was both?

Same building, but as the article above relates, it stopped being a Staff College and switched over to an Officer training establishment.

15 hours ago, NWFresearcher said:

1. Is there any information about the training programme as a Gentleman Cadet? (it looks like he did a 5 / 6 month course at Quetta in 1916 before being commissioned) 

Maybe an area that forum members @Kimberley John Lindsay and @MaureenE have some knowledge on.

15 hours ago, NWFresearcher said:

2. He came from a working class background in South Wales - I suspect his father, pushed him hard on his education.

The most obvious route for that would be via Grammar School, probably with a scholarship. Many Grammar Schools ran Junior Sections of the Officer Trainining Corps. These were a natural group to draw on for officers - and while in theory anyone could apply to be an officer, they would have needed references. An individual already serving in the army for example would have needed a recommendation from his commanding officer supporting the application as well as a character reference.

Would be good if you could share a name as there may well be more information that can be gleaned that is more specific to him.

Cheers,
Peter

[MaureenE]

Sorry, I can't add any specific information additional to that above.

For background information about Quetta, see the FIBIS Fibiwiki page https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Quetta

The course Alex's grandfather attended may have been similar in concept to the OTS Officers’ Training School, in Bangalore during WW2, see https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Bangalore for some accounts.

Maureen

Note the FIBIS Fibiwiki  website is somewhat slow currently.

[NWFresearcher]

16 hours ago, PRC said:

Hi @NWFresearcher and welcome to the forum

We had a very, very long thread trying to identify officers fates from various pre-war graduation and other group photographs for the Quetta Staff College. https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/302548-photograph-staff-college-quetta-1911

I remember some of the discussions went into the subsequent fate of the college, and not wanting to mis-lead you I've tried both a forum search and a quick skim read. The only link I could quickly uncover included the information "The Staff College, Quetta, closed down after the outbreak of the First World War, on 15 September 1915. The accommodation was transformed into a Cadet College to train young men for grant of commission in the British and Indian armies. It was only in 1919 that the College started functioning again."
https://www.dssc.gov.in/history/The Quetta Heritage.pdf

Same building, but as the article above relates, it stopped being a Staff College and switched over to an Officer training establishment.

Maybe an area that forum members @Kimberley John Lindsay and @MaureenE have some knowledge on.

The most obvious route for that would be via Grammar School, probably with a scholarship. Many Grammar Schools ran Junior Sections of the Officer Trainining Corps. These were a natural group to draw on for officers - and while in theory anyone could apply to be an officer, they would have needed references. An individual already serving in the army for example would have needed a recommendation from his commanding officer supporting the application as well as a character reference.

Would be good if you could share a name as there may well be more information that can be gleaned that is more specific to him.

Cheers,
Peter

Hi Peter / Maureen, 

Thanks so much for your prompt and very interesting response. I've started to follow up on your suggestions and thought I'd share my findings. The name I'm researching is Norman William Evans - started as 2nd Lt and finished as a Captain in 1932

1. Grammar schools - "The Education Act of 1902 had set up Local Education Authorities to provide ‘universal elementary education’ up to the age of 14 but which could also include the provision of ‘secondary’ schools for bright children. ‘Secondary education’ was provided for a minority of ‘able’ pupils in often newly created Grammar Schools. This was distinct from the ‘elementary education’ provided for all other state-funded pupils" -free spaces, due to the awarding of scholarships by LEA rose from 25% of places upto almost half." (David Jesson University of York 2013). Secondly where my Grandfather lived, Merthyr Tydfil, there was a newly created Grammar school. More digging to be done )particularly on Officer Training Units)  - but looks promising and logical. https://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/grammarsjesson.pdf

2. Officer Training (1914 - 1918) through University / Public Schools - a good starting is here: https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/training-to-be-a-soldier/officer-training-in-the-british-army-of-1914-1918/

3. On Quetta I came across this "The Quetta Heritage" that others might find useful. Has some pictures as well.  https://www.dssc.gov.in/history/The Quetta Heritage.pdf. Your sentence about becoming a Cade college between 1915 - 1919 makes total sense. Also more information / links here: https://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/officer-cadet-training-college-quetta.42819/    https://cscquetta.gov.pk/2012/08/11/historical-college-building/

Thanks for all your help - it's appreciated 

Alex 

 

15 hours ago, MaureenE said:

Sorry, I can't add any specific information additional to that above.

For background information about Quetta, see the FIBIS Fibiwiki page https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Quetta

The course Alex's grandfather attended may have been similar in concept to the OTS Officers’ Training School, in Bangalore during WW2, see https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Bangalore for some accounts.

Maureen

Note the FIBIS Fibiwiki  website is somewhat slow currently.

Hi Maureen, 

Thanks for your prompt response. I've included all my findings so far - above 

Alex 

[PRC]

42 minutes ago, NWFresearcher said:

The name I'm researching is Norman William Evans

But not the one living at 23 High Street, Merthyr Tydfil on the 1901 & 1911 Censuses of England & Wales? Father Probyn, mother Lucy?

55 minutes ago, NWFresearcher said:

Secondly where my Grandfather lived, Merthyr Tydfil, there was a newly created Grammar school. More digging to be done )particularly on Officer Training Units)

I take it you've already found this http://www.alangeorge.co.uk/countyschool.htm

However a check of Hart's Annual Army list for 1911 shows nothing in the way of a Junior Officer Training Corps at that School and I was quite surprised to see almost a complete absense of any in Wales - one in Monmouth and one other. Of course more could have been created either in the run up to the Great War or if one or more of the masters was deemed fit for home service only then there may have been a newly created JOTC presence after August 1914. There may also have been a Cadet Group affiliated to a Territorial Force unit.  Note it's probably best to use Officer Training Units only when referring to the wartime set-up of cadet officers in training.  Unfortunately our parent site, The Long, Long Trail only deals with the set-up in the UK. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/training-to-be-a-soldier/officer-training-in-the-british-army-of-1914-1918/

 By late 1916 the standard infantry officer course in the UK was 18 weeks, if the cadet passed first time. With the introduction of conscription the candidate was enrolled first of all in the ranks, (if they weren't already serving there) and was then sent off immediately to the relevant OTU. Should the individual flunk the course then they would be returned to their unit to see out their enlisted service. Note a small but significant number flunked the course because of their behaviour rather than repeated failure to complete the modules that made up the course.

I believe one of the criteria for selection for the Indian Army was ability to learn a language. For someone newly arrived from England, (if that is the case), then that element might explain why the course took longer.

May be  complete and utter red herring but an 18 year old Cadet Norman W. Evans sailed aboard the SS City of Marseilles, departing Liverpool bound for Bombay in 1916. (Genes Reunited), Not spotting anything for that on familysearch. Subscription sites like FindMyPast & Ancestry may have more detail \ scanned documents.

That ship had only been commissioned in 1913. https://www.tynebuiltships.co.uk/C-Ships/cityofmarseilles1913.html

The London Gazette, 13 April 1917 shows Norman William Evans on page 3514 as part of a list that that had started on the preceding page under the heading The KING has approved the admission of the undermentioned Gentlemen Cadets, from the Cadet College, Quetta, to the Unattached List for the Indian Army: —
To be Second Lieutenants. Dated 30th January, 1917 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30017/page/3514/data.pdf

Going back to the sailing list, while the source I'm using doesn't give me a date of sailing, a check for keywords Cadet  and "City of Marseilles" for 1916 only, turns up 53 matches, and while they could have sailed on different trips a quick look at the first five names shows them all, (with minor spelling differences like Boxall vs Baxall but same first names), being commissioned as 2nd Lieutenant in the same list in the London Gazette.

The July 1917 Quarterly Indian Army List finds 2nd Lieutenant N. W. Evans, with seniority from the 30th January 1917, as a Company Officer on the establishment of the 47th Sikhs but attached to the 35th Sikhs. https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.285011/page/n673/mode/2up?q=Evans&view=theater

35th Sikhs - During World War I the regiment was part of the 2nd (Rawalpindi) Division stationed on the North West Frontier dealing with numerous incursions by Afghan tribes. In 1919, they took part in the Third Afghan War.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/35th_Sikhs

Cheers,
Peter

[Matthew B.]

Hi Alex,

I have put some notes together about your man:

Norman William Evans

Born 15th April 1898, possibly the son of Probyn Issac Evans, a furniture dealer at the time his baptism.

He would have sat (and passed) passed the Royal Military College, Sandhurst  entrance exam with the option to go to a cadet college in India rather than Sandhurst.

The Indian Cadet colleges, unlike Sandhurst, were a six-month course with mandatory language training. Unlike those holding IARO or temporary commissions the cadet would qualify for a regular IA commission at the end of training.

In July 1931 Indian Army List he is listed as an officer of the 5th battalion, 11th Sikh Regiment which before the reorganisations in 1922 was titled the 47th Sikhs.

It states he was, at the time, on 12 months leave, to 29/2/32, pending retirement.

However, the London Gazette 11 March 1932 states:

“Capt. N. W. Evans resigns his commn., 1st Mar. 1932.”

Resigning his commission is not the same as retiring but that might just be a technical wording issue.

While in India he married Mary Frances Marlin in September 1918 - and yes, as you noted before that was a very unusual thing for a newly commissioned officer to do,.

One thing I want to add – unlike the British Army of the period, an officer of the Indian Army could, if careful, live off his pay. In the British Army officers were expected to have a private income of some sort to supplement their pay.

I hope that helps.

Regards,

Matthew