HMS Lizard funnel bands

[Ian Burns]

The accompanying IWM photo shows HMS Lizard of the 1st Destroyer Flotilla, ca. 1914.

What do the white (one online source says red and white) funnel bands signify? Flotilla Leader, Section Leader, what?

[michaeldr]

The white bands were for recognition between ships with the same silhouette

Edited 21 December , 2023 by michaeldr

[KizmeRD]

The 1st Destroyer Flotilla had some twenty Acheron Class destroyers attached to it in late 1914, and as michaeldr says, the funnel bands are there to enable ships of the same class to be readily distinguished from one another (different combinations of banding being unique to a particular ship in the same flotilla).
MB

[The Treasurer]

This style of bands is pre-war. All were painted out throughout the fleet on the day war broke out for security reasons. A different system was soon reintroduced in this Flotilla, involving the painting of parts of the funnel in light grey in a pattern that distinguished each Division, as the inability to distinguish between them was causing tactical problems.

 

[KizmeRD]

Yes, thanks for reminding us about the changes brought in on the outbreak of war.

The funnel banding system as used to differentiate ships of the same class first came in around 1909, but prior to that there was  some funnel banding already in use, but its purpose was to collectively identify units of a designated group (rather than the banding being specific to one particular ship).

Following the withdrawal of funnel markings the problem mentioned above relating to the consequent inability to visually distinguish one ship from another eventually got solved by the introduction of pennant (pendant) numbers - painted on the forward part of the hull and on the stern. Destroyers were allocated the prefixes ‘D’, ‘F’ ‘G’ & ‘H’.

MB

 

Edited 21 December , 2023 by KizmeRD

[Ian Burns]

Dumb me! Thanks for pointing out what I already knew, but had buried in my ageing brain.

Really though I should have remembered that.

Actually, not all recognition bands were painted out.

Australia's two Town-class cruisers, Sydney and Melbourne, were operating together in the Pacific area early in the war with a mix of other ships. The two were almost identical and to aid recognition (This is why I should have remembered) Sydney retained the white bands painted on her two centre funnels, Melbourne had no markings. Sydney retained the bands during the engagement with SMS Emden on 9 November 1914, they were painted out before she arrived in the UK to join the Grand Fleet with her sister in October 1916.

[KizmeRD]

I do apologise Ian, but it’s difficult for others to deduce what you might, or might not, already know. 

Going back to your original post, fyi white (or indeed red) funnel banding never signified a flotilla leader, whose ship was typically distinguished by the absence of any funnel markings - that and the fact that it would have been commonplace at the time for the leader of a destroyer flotilla to be a light cruiser (so as to provide more accommodation space for Capt. D and his staff).

MB

Edited 21 December , 2023 by KizmeRD

[Ian Burns]

Apology not required! It really was dumb of me not to remember 

Thanks for clarifying the destroyer flotilla leader. That I did not know.

I dimly remember reading somewher that Keyes used a destroyer as flotilla leader for the Harwich submarines in the early months of the war. 

[michaeldr]

2 hours ago, Ian Burns said:

I dimly remember reading somewher that Keyes used a destroyer as flotilla leader for the Harwich submarines in the early months of the war. 

P.62 of his memoirs 1910-1915 - HMS Lurcher

'The Lurcher flew my broad pennant whenever i went to sea, until I left the Submarine service'

[rolt968]

2 hours ago, michaeldr said:

P.62 of his memoirs 1910-1915 - HMS Lurcher

'The Lurcher flew my broad pennant whenever i went to sea, until I left the Submarine service'

I think I read somewhere that he was ticked off for that. (Or am I thinking of someone else?)

RM

[The Treasurer]

20 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

I think I read somewhere that he was ticked off for that. (Or am I thinking of someone else?)

RM

You're right. Battenberg forbade Keyes from going to sea with his submarines after a problematic intervention at the 1st Battle of Heligoland. The instruction was later effectively withdrawn by Fisher after he became 1st Sea Lord.