Help required Thomas Hay Gilroy sn/1592

[Malcolm Reed]

Hi people 

I’m trying to find information on my Great Grandfather who was a Merchant seaman / Stoker who served under conscription 1914-1919 on various ships 

HMS Gibraltar 1914- vivid 3 , 1914 - Colleen , vivid3 , Perthshire , one I can’t imperious? read HMS victorious 

Any help would be appreciated 

regards 

malcolm

[RussT]

24 minutes ago, Malcolm Reed said:

one I can’t imperious? read

Welcome to the Forum

It might be my eyes but I can't read any of it because it's all blurred.

Any chance of posting images that are in focus?

Russ

[Matlock1418]

Record at TNA - currently a free download https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8537809

1 hour ago, Malcolm Reed said:

imperious?

Malcom, Welcome to GWF

I read as Imperieuse

I might presume to be https://www.clydeships.co.uk/view.php?&ref=18534 1870 AUDACIOUS - 1904 FISGARD - 1914 IMPERIEUSE - 1919 HMS VICTORIUS III 

M

Edited 13 December , 2023 by Matlock1418
names

[Malcolm Reed]

40 minutes ago, RussT said:

Welcome to the Forum

It might be my eyes but I can't read any of it because it's all blurred.

Any chance of posting images that are in focus?

Russ

Thanks Russ 

this might help 

[KizmeRD]

Hello Malcolm, your GGF would not have been conscripted to join the navy, that only occurred for enlistment into the army,(from 1916 onwards) and besides he was already enrolled as a Stoker in the Royal Navy Naval Reserve even before the war started (ever since March 1910), so he would have been called-out (for wartime service) when the Navy mobilised in August 1914.

HMS Gibraltar was an Edgar Class cruiser assigned to the 10th Cruiser Squadron and served in the waters of northern Scotland during the opening months of the war.  Many of her crew were reservists.

Vivid was the name of the naval barracks in Plymouth.

Colleen was the name given to the naval base in Queenstown, Ireland (an operating base for anti-submarine patrols) taking its name from an old corvette. 

Perthshire was a converted merchant ship serving as a water Carrier for the Grand Fleet at Scapa Flow.

Imperieuse was the receiving ship based at Scapa Flow (an old armoured cruiser) used as the principal mail office for ships of the Grand Fleet.

Victorious was a fleet repair ship (former pre-Dreadnought battleship) based at Scapa Flow.

MB

 

[Malcolm Reed]

6 hours ago, KizmeRD said:

Hello Malcolm, your GGF would not have been conscripted to join the navy, that only occurred for enlistment into the army,(from 1916 onwards) and besides he was already enrolled as a Stoker in the Royal Navy Naval Reserve even before the war started (ever since March 1910), so he would have been called-out (for wartime service) when the Navy mobilised in August 1914.

HMS Gibraltar was an Edgar Class cruiser assigned to the 10th Cruiser Squadron and served in the waters of northern Scotland during the opening months of the war.  Many of her crew were reservists.

Vivid was the name of the naval barracks in Plymouth.

Colleen was the name given to the naval base in Queenstown, Ireland (an operating base for anti-submarine patrols) taking its name from an old corvette. 

Perthshire was a converted merchant ship serving as a water Carrier for the Grand Fleet at Scapa Flow.

Imperieuse was the receiving ship based at Scapa Flow (an old armoured cruiser) used as the principal mail office for ships of the Grand Fleet.

Victorious was a fleet repair ship (former pre-Dreadnought battleship) based at Scapa Flow.

MB

 

MB

many thanks for your info, it’s a great help as I piece together his life,  as he was a mystery in many ways. 

[KizmeRD]

There is also information on his service sheet relating to his pre-war merchant navy career. In 1910 when he joined the RNR he was living in Aberdeen before moving to Edinburgh and he appears to have been working as a Fireman with Leith, Hull & Hamburg Steam Packet Co. (no prizes for guessing where they sailed to!). He served on such ships as Oldenburg and Mecklenburg.

In 1912 he moved back to Aberdeen, at first working for North of Scotland, Orkney & Shetland Steam Navigation Co. onboard the St. Clair, and then he got a job in Hall Russell Shipyard.

He returned to Edinburgh in 1913, returning to work for Leith, Hull & Hamburg Steam Packet Co. (Edina & Weimar). After which he worked on two cargo ships belonging to Christian Salvesen fleet, firstly aboard Siva (90921), then on a long voyage down to the Falkland Islands as an AB on the  Ramleh.

Also of interest is that during his time in Queenstown during the war, he was admitted for a time to the Haulbowline  Naval Hospital. Rather than actually serving on the depot ship Colleen, I suspect he may have spent his days aboard the armed trawler Princess Mary (but others may be able to confirm whether this was in fact so).

Finally, worth noting that he also assigned some of his wages to support his sister (Mrs M Grant).

MB

 

 

Edited 14 December , 2023 by KizmeRD

[Malcolm Reed]

MB 

you are amazing,

a little background to him my Grandmother her father Thomas also had another daughter , so was married twice, Jeanette Hislop and another no record of yet. Your information is outstanding 
Thank you 

Regards

Malcolm

[horatio2]

1 hour ago, KizmeRD said:

Rather than actually serving on the depot ship Colleen, I suspect he may have spent his days aboard the armed trawler Princess Mary

I avn confirm that PRINCESS MARY was never based on COLLEEN. I think we must assume, therefore, that his long service in COLLEEN [11 Dec 1914 to 27 Aug 1918 - most of WW1] was spent as a member of the Queenstown Base Party. This does not mean that he never went to sea but he would not have been a full-time member of a trawler crew.

That said, I am puzzled by this record entry:  PRINCESS MARY (PERTHSHIRE) [sic] from VIVID III - 13 Sep 1918 to 5 Feb 1919. 

PERTHSHIRE, was employed as a Water Carrier at Scapa (as @KizmeRD has correctly noted) and was never employed as a trawler parent ship - and the brackets are deceptive (or incorrect). Moreover PRINCESS MARY did not return from her Med base at Taranto until mid-November 1918 and was based from 1 December on HMS VENERABLE at Portland. PRINCESS MARY and PERTHSHIRE were never co-located.

 

Edited 14 December , 2023 by horatio2

[horatio2]

Further to my previous, if the puzzling record entry can be read as PRINCESS MAY, this could refer to the following:-

PRINCESS MAY (ex-ELISABETH), hired screw tug. Built 1893, 43grt. In service 8.14-3.19, limited to harbour and inland waterway duties, flew red ensign.

I have not found a record showing her basing but she might possibly have been at Scapa, assisting PERTHSHIRE in her mobility around the anchorage.

Edited 14 December , 2023 by horatio2

[Malcolm Reed]

Thank you Horatio2

i will look in to Colleen deeper if I can, and see what records are there ie, base hand or hospital ! 
all of you guys are so incredibly knowledgeable and helpful 

Thank you 

M

[Tawhiri]

2 hours ago, Malcolm Reed said:

a little background to him my Grandmother her father Thomas also had another daughter , so was married twice, Jeanette Hislop and another no record of yet.

There are two marriages on ScotlandsPeople for a Thomas Hay Gilroy, the second is to the aforementioned Jeanette Hislop in 1911, the first is to an Isabella Carter in 1907, both registered in Leith South.

GILROY     THOMAS HAY     CARTER     ISABELLA     1907     692 / 2 / 318     Leith South

GILROY     THOMAS HAY     HISLOP     JANETTIE FRANCE     1911     692 / 2 / 350     Leith South

I'm not seeing an obvious death registered in Scotland for Isabella between 1907 and 1911, although there is the death of a 22-year old Isabella Gilroy that was registered in Hartlepool, England in the second quarter of 1908. So it's a bit of mystery as to what happened to her, although if she had died Thomas' status on his second marriage should have been recorded as widower.

[Malcolm Reed]

Hi Tawhiri

Thanks for that info yes Thomas did Marry Jeanette Frances Hislop in 1911 They had a daughter Jeanette Frances in 1912 who had a step sister ? A Margaret Allen Wood Hislop born in 1913  all a bit of a mystery I know she existed but looking at Thomas and his navel service , he was never at home .. also he was assigned part of his wage  to his sister Mrs M Grant . 

Thanks

M

[KizmeRD]

12 minutes ago, Malcolm Reed said:

 .. also he was assigned part of his wage  to his sister Mrs M Grant . 

Marjory M. Grant (nee Gilroy) born 1883.

Also discovered that, according to the 1901 Census, Thomas Hay was an apprentice Taylor (obviously the call of the sea won out in the end).

MB

[Malcolm Reed]

MB 

Thanks for this, it gets better all the time  strange to go from a relaxed job apprenticeship taylor to a hard life of stoker in the engine room of Steam ship 

cheers

M