RNAS and RFC

[Kellyellie98]

I'm at the very beginning of learning about WW1, I wanted to know the difference between the RNAS and the RFC. I know the RFC developed from the Balloon crops in a nutshell and wasn't something many people were excited about in particular with Sir Douglas Haig writing "I hope none of you gentleman is so foolish as to think that aeroplanes will be able to be employed for reconnaissance in the air." and was more in favour for cavalry. That and the RFC was potentially going to be dissolved afterwards into the Navy but Trenchaard said no. 

So why didn't they just use the RNAS for recon missions and observations? Or even bring out Fighters themselves. It something I can't quite wrap my head around, did they have planes themselves? 

Yes, this question may seem basic but everyone has to start somewhere when learning. 

[KizmeRD]

Kelly, welcome to the forum.

Since you are starting from a low level of knowledge, I suggest you might want to Google ‘Royal Naval Air Service’ and read what Wikipedia has to say. This ought to answer all of your initial questions - then if you require any further clarification, or need help in a specific area, then I’m sure that forum pals will be happy to assist.

There are also several books on the RNAS, many of which are available to read free online via the Internet Archive.

MB

 

Edited 13 December , 2023 by KizmeRD

[Kellyellie98]

I enjoy learning from what others have to say just as much as reading!:) I'll have a look for things on the internet, but in the meantime if anyone is up to providing brief answers to help me get started, I'd appreciate that massively 

[KizmeRD]

6 hours ago, Kellyellie98 said:

So why didn't they just use the RNAS for recon missions and observations? Or even bring out Fighters themselves. It something I can't quite wrap my head around, did they have planes themselves? 

In short, the wartime role of the RNAS included (but was not limited to) reconnaissance and observation. FYI they also provided UK air defence, long-range bombing, anti-submarine & convoy patrols, and additionally (in response to army requests) they supported the BEF (with the provision of fighter aircraft squadrons). 

Kelly, just a friendly word of advice from an oldie - if you do intend writing an historical novel (as you disclosed in another of your posts a couple of weeks back), then I wouldn’t recommend skipping  preparatory research of your own, as this is generally invaluable in gaining an understanding of the topic that you're writing about (creating credibility, ensuring accuracy, as well as contributing to the storyline) but good luck anyway.

MB

[Kellyellie98]

Thanks for the advice, I've been reading as much as I can on the subjects that I'd like to encounter in my story. Primary research is important as my university professors drilled into me haha, so I'm absolutely doing my research before writing a story based on real history. 

This forum is a great way to get chatting to other people and helps me fill in gaps that I may have missed, or don't fully understand. I hope this reassures you  

 

Edited 13 December , 2023 by Kellyellie98

[KizmeRD]

You may find it informative  to look up RNAS Howden (an airship station) and RNAS Hornsea Mere (seaplanes), both located in Yorkshire.

MB

[Kellyellie98]

Thank you for all of your help today, truly appreciated 

 

[Talesofaseadog]

Kelly, it is important to have some perspective about the introduction of flying into 2 well established and huge military spheres.

At the start of WW1 flying in all its forms was very difficult and unreliable.

The advantages could be seen by some, but achieving these was costly and mostly done by those few with money and a spirit of adventure.

For the RN, it was the threat of the Zeppelin that spured them on and a little later the massive U-boat threat.

For the army it was spotting that became the goal, and then protecting the spotters.

Development by the RNAS and the RFC was not coordinated.

Eventually towards the end of the war came the RAF, which tried to bring the 2 together.

For the RNAS, which is my own passion, their history can be sub divided into airships, flying from land and flying from ships.

Tony

Edited 14 December , 2023 by Talesofaseadog

[seaJane]

Some of the earliest reports on wartime air accidents were written by naval surgeons. This is the only one I can track down at the moment, but there may be one or two more.

Anderson, H.G. Aeroplane accidents. Journal of The Royal Naval Medical Service, vol. 4, no. 1 (Jan 1918), p. 51ff. https://archive.org/details/JRNMSVOL4Images/page/n81/mode/1up

 

[MikeMeech]

On 13/12/2023 at 14:34, Kellyellie98 said:

I'm at the very beginning of learning about WW1, I wanted to know the difference between the RNAS and the RFC. I know the RFC developed from the Balloon crops in a nutshell and wasn't something many people were excited about in particular with Sir Douglas Haig writing "I hope none of you gentleman is so foolish as to think that aeroplanes will be able to be employed for reconnaissance in the air." and was more in favour for cavalry. That and the RFC was potentially going to be dissolved afterwards into the Navy but Trenchaard said no. 

So why didn't they just use the RNAS for recon missions and observations? Or even bring out Fighters themselves. It something I can't quite wrap my head around, did they have planes themselves? 

Yes, this question may seem basic but everyone has to start somewhere when learning. 

Hi

The RFC was formed on the 13 April 1912 and it consisted of a Military Wing, a Naval Wing and a Central Flying School (CFS) so it was originally a 'joint organization.  There was a 'de facto' split by July 1914 when the RNAS was formed.

Part of a photo from 'British Air Forces 1914-18' (Osprey , Men-at-Arms 341) by Andrew and Peter Cormack, page 4, shows naval ratings cap tallies with Royal Flying Corps on (at CFS Upavon, 1913):

Beware negative comments on what Haig is supposed to have said about aviation as during WW1 he was a supporter of it and other new technology.  There is also evidence pre-war that he was, Simon Batten's book 'Futile Exercise?  The British Army's Preparations for War 1902-1914'  is very informative on these exercises and the use of aviation, example pages

below:

I hope that is of interest.

Mike

[Kellyellie98]

Thank you everyone for your help, I've understood the very basic grasp that RNAS was for zeppelins and submarines, whereas RFC was for recon missions, and bombing missions, and eventually fighting. Of course it isn't that black and white but it's what I've understood thus far. In today's UK military, RAF pilots and Navy pilots train together on flying such as at RAF Linton learning in the Tucanos, or over at Valley in the Hawks. Was it the same back then? 

Why was there a split from the RFC? Was it for the purpose of monitoring sea-warfare in aircraft? 

As always, all guidance is appreciated. 

Thank you everyone for your help, I've understood the very basic grasp that RNAS was for zeppelins and submarines, whereas RFC was for recon missions, and bombing missions, and eventually fighting. Of course it isn't that black and white but it's what I've understood thus far. In today's UK military, RAF pilots and Navy pilots train together on flying such as at RAF Linton learning in the Tucanos, or over at Valley in the Hawks. Was it the same back then? 

Why was there a split from the RFC? Was it for the purpose of monitoring sea-warfare in aircraft? 

As always, all guidance is appreciated. 

[KizmeRD]

Not sure that you’re fully grasp the information that’s already been provided.

Yes, one of the roles of the RNAS (up until Feb 1916) was air defence of the UK (countering the Zeppelin menace), and yes anti-submarine patrolling was another significant role too - but all aircraft, whether naval or military, performed aerial reconnaissance, and long range bombing was primarily a role pioneered by RNAS (whose aircraft also attacked coastal targets too).

Furthermore, I’m not quite sure what you’re getting at by ‘eventually fighting’, but rest assured, during the entirety of the Great War both the RNAS and the RFC did their fair share of aerial combat (with several RNAS fighter squadrons being maintained on  the Western Front). 

You may also not be aware that during WW1 there was in fact a ‘Central Flying School’ where pilots from both the RNAS and the RFC undertook basic pilot training.

As for the RFC ‘split’ - effectively, the navy had been doing its own thing right from the outset, what with the purely naval aviation activities taking place at Eastchurch under Murray Sueter (with formal recognition of a ‘separate’ RNAS occurring in July 1914). It just didn’t make a whole lot of sense to have to request permission from the army to stop what they were doing and allocate an aircraft to come and spot the fall of shot from a warship, or do an anti-submarine patrol, or over-fly a convoy route etc.

MB

Edited 15 December , 2023 by KizmeRD