Merchant Navy cap badge: which Shipping Line?

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear Merchant Navy aficionados,

1) Could  kind GWF members, identify the name of the SHIPPING LINE worn on the cap badge of this handsome Merchant Navy officer (N. G. Regan), please?

2) How could one acquire a copy of the Merchant Navy ID card (CR 10) for N. G. Regan (a la Pepperell and Bryson), please?

Sorry to be such a pest!

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[KizmeRD]

N.G. Regan is wearing a standard Merchant Navy Officer’s uniform introduced just after the end of WW1. It’s impossible to say from the photos what shipping line he belonged to, but the image on the left was taken later than the photo of him on the right (with his Mum, when he was still an officer cadet) - they have the look to me of 1940’s era photos.

https://stage.nautilusint.org/en/news-insight/telegraph/dress-to-impress-the-history-of-the-british-merchant-navys-standard-uniform/

MB

Edited 2 December , 2023 by KizmeRD

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear KizmeRD,

Many thanks indeed for getting me started in the right direction. Much appreciated!

For general interest I attach pictures of Purser Bryson (who sailed on one Q-Ship voyage, but not "Vienna", the one shown), and later with 15 Star Trio ribbons up,  with a fellow ship's officer - both with different cap badges!

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[KizmeRD]

Kim, not sure I’m following where you’re going with this thread. What’s the connection between young Regan and Bryson/Pepperall? (Or are you attempting to establish one?)

Bryson - was an Assistant Paymaster RNR during wartime (serving on Vienna). Possibly he was a Great Eastern Railways (Harwich ferry) employee prior to the war, and became a Purser with Elder Dempster afterwards.

Pepperall was RNVR during the war and served on steam yachts, I’m not sure he has any direct connection with either Regan or Bryson - but maybe you can explain?

I’m not a subscriber, but I believe that ‘Find My Past’ has a collection of electronically stored images of MN CR10’s, but if you want a hard copy, then you may well have to go visit the archive in Southampton.

MB

 

 

[MerchantOldSalt]

There is no CR10 Card available for a N G Regan, there is a CR1 and CR2 Card for a Nicholas Regan born 1907 Liverpool, with some information on but no photo, is that the chap you are seeking?

Tony

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear MB, and Tony,

First of all, many thanks to both of you for taking the trouble to respond!

The information concerning MN CR 10 and CR 1/CR 2 Cards (the latter not familiar with me before this), is enlightening.

Sadly, Nicholas Regan and N. G. Regan were not one and the same person. A great pity!

The main thing is the (extremely helpful) information that there is no CR 10 Card for N. G. Regan.

That was the reason for my having attached, merely as examples, such documents for Pepperell and Bryson. Likewise, the attached scans of Bryson & a fellow sea officer, concerned MN cap badges (of which I know little). 

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[ernest james]

Hi Kim

I suspect that you should be looking at WW2 records rather than Ww1 for N G Regan. The photos you provided look as if they were taken in the 1940s. Look at the woman's hair style.

There is a ww2 British merchant navy medal recorded for a Norman George Regan , Identity number R 284721, born 15 Sept 1926.

What do you think. Is he a possible match?

best wishes

ernest james

 

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear Ernest,

Many thanks. Yes, that is the man in question.

My question was to identify the cap badge, as well as asking after a MN CR 10 Card possibility.

The Naval aficionados have been exceedingly helpful, and this goes for you, too...!

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All,

Here is the badge I was originally looking for!

Thanks again for your GWF characteristic patience and helpful expertise.

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[MerchantOldSalt]

Kim,

If you really want to show off at the next pub quiz, the badge you depict is not strictly speaking the one made official by the Standard Uniform Regulations, that is the one I have attached where the laurel leaves are much more folded round the anchor.

The one you show is known as a Bombay Style British Merchant Service Officer's Cap Badge, so called, allegedly, because the naval outfitters in Bombay, where many officers purchased tailor made uniforms, did not initially know what the standard badge looked like and just produced one similar to many shipping company cap badges they were already producing but with the anchor on a maroon background instead of a company house flag or badge. The Bombay Cap badge was much favoured in liner companies that did not have their own livery or changed to the standard uniform.

Tony

[KizmeRD]

So perhaps possible that in the ‘two stooges’ photo  you posted (of Bryson plus A.N. Other) - both officers could in fact be wearing MN cap badges, just different versions of the same.

(It’s a pity that the image definition isn’t clearer).

MB

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All, Tony and Michael,

Super! That is the right cap badge (with closer folded laurel leaves). 

Many thanks for devilling out this conundrum. Much appreciated. 

I see that N. G. Regan's service records BT 372/595/139 are held at TNA, but not digitised, involving a visit to Kew (I am in Germany). Perhaps an imminent GWF visitor could get these copied, please: I would gladly foot the bill ?

Kindest regards,

Kim. 

Edited 10 December , 2023 by Kimberley John Lindsay