Sgt Alexander Hutcheon, Uniform question

[Allylearm]

My wife G/Father on her Father's side was in the First World War. He was born on 23 June 1887 in Lechyview, New Machar, Scotland. I have tried to get his details but cannot find him. I have seen plenty info concerning the same name but not in the Regiment my Father in law told me. I was informed he was in the Royal Horse Artillery but I am not sure the photo of him has him in the correct uniform. Is anyone knowledgeable on the Uniform Alexander is wearing, it looks like Australian Light Horse but uniforms I am totally without knowledge. Would it be possible to join one regiment and then move to another, like recruit in Gordons and then move to Royal Horse Artillery.

On return from the war he was married twice though his tree was perplexing in detail for him which is not usually the case on my tree research.

Edited 28 November , 2023 by Allylearm

[Michelle Young]

He’s wearing Australian Army uniform. Possibly 4th Div Artillery, looking at the patches on his upper sleeves. 
 

[Allylearm]

Now I am a bit of a loss though fully explains why I do not find him in UK Army records.

[Michelle Young]

The Australian Army Records are free to search 

I can’t find an Alexander, but here’s the results page for the name Hutcheon 

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ListingReports/ItemsListing.aspx

[Michelle Young]

Here’s an article about colour patches, which is where I made the guess about what he was serving in. If he was 3rd Div, I’d expect the brim to be turned down. The man in the photo also has no rank identification, ie no Sgts stripes. 

https://www.westernfrontassociation.com/world-war-i-articles/colour-patches-in-the-australian-forces/

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Michelle Young said:

He’s wearing Australian Army uniform. Possibly 4th Div Artillery, looking at the patches on his upper sleeves. 
 

I agree that he is likely artillery.  As well as his patches he wears the expensive leather ‘Stohwasser’ gaiters purchased by the Australian government for their artillerymen.  The contract greatly contributed to the wealth of the patriotic Stohwasser family, one of whose sons served as a junior officer in the British army.  The patented gaiters had been popular since the 2nd Anglo/Boer War.

A minor, but important point historically is that there is an Australian Army now, but there wasn’t then.  Instead there was the magnificent Australian Imperial Force (AIF) serving overseas and a militia serving at home in defence.  This was the same with all the old Commonwealth nations (Canada, NZ, SA).  They were all, collectively a part of the British Armies in the field. 

Edited 28 November , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Allylearm]

Found Medal Record for a Alexander Hutcheon in Royal Field Artillery, Regt No 84365, was Ranked Cop & Serg, awarded MM, British, Victory and 15 Star

[Allylearm]

[FROGSMILE]

8 minutes ago, Allylearm said:

It suggests that the photo was taken before he embarked, just as so many men did, not knowing if they would return.

[Michelle Young]

Therefore, who is the man in the photo? He is clearly AIF. The MIC is for a soldier in the British Artillery.,

[FROGSMILE]

Just now, Michelle Young said:

Therefore, who is the man in the photo? He is clearly AIF. The MIC is for a soldier in the British Artillery.,

Well spotted Michelle, that’s an elephant in the room that I did not see…😳

[Allylearm]

7 minutes ago, Michelle Young said:

Therefore, who is the man in the photo? He is clearly AIF. The MIC is for a soldier in the British Artillery.,

My Father in Law had the photo in his home and he told me it was his Father. Alexander died in 1965 in Scotland, moving from Aberdeen to Dundee and then to Glasgow. He never emigrated though one of his Daughters from two Marriages did. I am at a loss why he would be in AIF uniform, what is the Uniform for a Royal Field Artillery at the time? Forgot to mention he was a Police Constable in Glasgow.

Edited 28 November , 2023 by Allylearm

[Waddell]

Is there a studio mark on the photograph? It looks like a new uniform.

Scott

 

[Allylearm]

Just now, Waddell said:

Is there a studio mark on the photograph? It looks like a new uniform.

Scott

 

Sorry, at the break up of the in laws House on their Death I do not know which family member has this photo I scanned it prior.

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, Allylearm said:

what is the Uniform for a Royal Field Artillery at the time? Forgot to mention he was a Police Constable in Glasgow.

Typical uniforms look like this Ally.

 

Edited 28 November , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Allylearm]

It is a puzzle, Hat totally different, Boots can be same. I had two Grand Uncles David Sneddon and Andrew Learmonth, both joined around the same time one in Argyll's and the other to the Gordons. Both had pictures taken in Falkirk prior to shipping out with family. David had no dress Kilt, my Uncle Andrew told me he borrowed his so he was a Argyll photographed in Gordon Kilt. Could, Alexander have used a hat as a prop. Or this photo is not Alexander though my Father in Law and his Brothers along with his second wife assured it was. Its a puzzle right enough. Wondered if he was stationed with Australian Regiments it could have been a later photo,

[FROGSMILE]

1 minute ago, Allylearm said:

It is a puzzle, Hat totally different, Boots can be same. I had two Grand Uncles David Sneddon and Andrew Learmonth, both joined around the same time one in Argyll's and the other to the Gordons. Both had pictures taken in Falkirk prior to shipping out with family. David had no dress Kilt, my Uncle Andrew told me he borrowed his so he was a Argyll photographed in Gordon Kilt. Could, Alexander have used a hat as a prop. Or this photo is not Alexander though my Father in Law and his Brothers along with his second wife assured it was. Its a puzzle right enough. Wondered if he was stationed with Australian Regiments it could have been a later photo,

He’s perfectly attired as an Australian soldier Ally and such an effort wouldn’t really be possible other than in very exceptional and unlikely circumstances.  It also seems a big stretch of the imagination that he could have transferred so there seems to be something else going on here.

[Allylearm]

Found another Medal roll for Alexander Hutcheon but lists him as being both in the Royal Horse Artillery and Royal Field Artillery

[Waddell]

He looks too well turned out and fitted for the uniform to be borrowed. Studio marks would at least give you a location where the photograph was taken.

The photographs of the other uncles- does the studio furniture look the same as this one?

Scott

Edited 28 November , 2023 by Waddell
Added more.

[Allylearm]

3 minutes ago, Waddell said:

He looks too well turned out and fitted for the uniform to be borrowed. Studio marks would at least give you a location where the photograph was taken.

The photographs of the other uncles- does the studio furniture look the same as this one?

Scott

My photos of my Uncles was taken in Falkirk, Alexander I do not know, he was Aberdeen and the photos are not the same with the furniture totally different.

Found another Alexander Hutcheon No131774 Driver in Royal Field Artillery. I need to get into enlistments to clarify who these listings perpetuate too.

[TullochArd]

9 hours ago, Michelle Young said:

The Australian Army Records are free to search 

I can’t find an Alexander, but here’s the results page for the name Hutcheon 

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ListingReports/ItemsListing.aspx

Ally,

Attached is the list of 6 Australian Hutcheon's Michelle mentions as her link has sadly died. 

The fellow in the photo is 100% Australian and the point has been made then if he is not Alexander then who is he?  A distant relative perhaps?  Of the six Australian Hutcheons only one is Artillery as in your photo.  He is discharged as T/Bdr 13 FAB (Field Artillery Brigade) which was formed to support 4 Div in 1916.  He is also Presbyterian which a peculiarly Scottish choice. 

There the easy stuff ends - he's second generation Australian. Long shot - could 1704 Charles Hutcheon be a distant Australian relative of Alexander that merited a photo in your family collection?   

I'll leave the complicated process of elimination to you!

 

 

Edited 28 November , 2023 by TullochArd

[Allylearm]

I will not conclude until I get to speak to someone in the family. None of my wife siblings know anything. I cannot go forward until I research a copy of his actual recruitment document so clarifying his actual Army No. Thanks for all the advise, I have never had much problem with my own family and they can be researched back to 1600 and only issue I hit was Cromwell Troops burning Linlithgow and essential OPR were lost.

Edited 28 November , 2023 by Allylearm