Help Imperial german army Tonister

[Henry5]

I am hoping someone could help me identify my 1915 dated great war Imperial army Tonister / backpack.

       This Tonister is different to all of the others I have seen, The shoulder straps are not adjustable at the top as they normally would be, and are stitched in place, and always have been.  All others I have seen have three holes and a retaining locking pin.

    The internals are also totally different in that the top flap has not got the internal set up to hold the soldiers kit, and there are no connections to fit any.

   The main body of the pack is also totally different. Again there are is not the normal layout for boots , kit ect.  Just a couple of small straps that close the pack with a hessian curtain.

     This all seems totally original, but strange as I have never seen one like this.

One person called it a “Artillery mans Tonister” but I can not find any information anywhere.

Any ideas are very welcome.

[FROGSMILE]

Forum pals @GreyC and @AOK4 might perhaps best be able to advise on this particular subject.

Edited 25 November , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[GreyC]

Sorry, not my field of knowledge.

GreyC

[FROGSMILE]

31 minutes ago, GreyC said:

Sorry, not my field of knowledge.

GreyC

Thank you GreyC, I always appreciate that unlike some you always have the courtesy to reply even when you can’t help.  It is very gentlemanly and rarely seen now. 

[AOK4]

Hello,

It's difficult to judge from pictures, but it seems like this Tornister was adapted at some point to be used as a civilian backpack. That's not that unusual, but of course it takes away quite a bit of the value.

Jan

[GreyC]

23 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

It is very gentlemanly and rarely seen now. 

Don´t make me blush...

GreyC

[Henry5]

22 hours ago, AOK4 said:

Hello,

It's difficult to judge from pictures, but it seems like this Tornister was adapted at some point to be used as a civilian backpack. That's not that unusual, but of course it takes away quite a bit of the value.

Jan

I honestly don't know, But, the straps have always been fixed in there current position, there ate no signs of any holes in the top where the connecting pin would go, but could the whole top piece of been replaced and re-dated. Also on all other backpacks I have seen the side walls are very slim to allow the inner conpartments to compress and expand. there are no signs of anything ever been attached inside the main flap, so no inner conpartment. the outer leather fixings for the mess kit and the side fixing for the greatcoat and tent are in totally different layout, and there are no signs of them ever being fixed anywhere else. 

     You may well be correct , and I will forever be looking at it , trying to see how it might of been converted. 

Would more photos help??

[AOK4]

Hello,

I think it's the bottom part which has been cut of on both sides where the hooks should be that attach to the ammo pouches.

Some other alterations are visible as well. In my opinion a military Tornister changed into civilian backpack.

Jan

[Henry5]

3 minutes ago, AOK4 said:

Hello,

I think it's the bottom part which has been cut of on both sides where the hooks should be that attach to the ammo pouches.

Some other alterations are visible as well. In my opinion a military Tornister changed into civilian backpack.

Jan

Seill unsure, but thats what makes this good debate, the Ammo pouches were attached to a second strap and not the tonister its self. the hooks on the bottom were attached ro the existing strap. the second strap fixed where the rivet is on the strap

[AOK4]

I strongly recommend you to look better at pics. The straps which are rounded should be longer and there should be some hook that attaches to the ammo pouches.

[Henry5]

I agree , but look at the top of the straps. there is a connecting pin, the strap has three holes, My staps have been stitched in place, there has never been a hole for a pin. the side walls on the tonister you have shown are compressed flat, the walls on the one in question at 4.5 inches wide and are rigid. a totally different style of tonister.

again the flap of the pack you have shown will have a inner conpartment attached inside for personal equipment, My item never has and is just a cover flap . I have included some pictures of another empty pack I have to show how flat normal packs fold when empty, and the strap top adjustment clips from the inside. these are some of the pictures taked by the guy I bought the second item from

 

[AOK4]

Like I said, it has been converted, so multiple elements may have been changed.