John Gerald Hickey, 28249 Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers

[Dirty Harry]

Hello,

 

Im looking a bit of help to find out more about John before i submit his records to the CWGC.  As you can see from his pension and effects register he falls within the criteria, however beyond that i dont know much, espically his connection to Ireland.  Im assuming his parents had come from possibly Tyrone or Fermanagh but that would be only an educated guess.  Why else would he have joined the Inniskillings?  Ive no idea when he was born or where he died.  His pension records indicate London, but i cant find a death certificate to match.

His effects register may have some clues but im not really up on what it all means.  Any help would be brilliant.

 

Thanks,

Paul

[PaulC78]

Discharged insane on 17/09/1918, the SER gives the date as 02/09/1918 but this doesn't appear to be accurate. His disability was dementia, originating July 1917 at Omagh and attributable to service during the war. Your first pension card says "serving" but this also seems to be in error. He was discharged to Claybury Asylum at Woodford Bridge, Essex, and was age 22 at that time.

Service record says he was born at Clerkenwell and that he enlisted on 03/08/1915, looks like he joined with the 27th Royal Fusiliers but not sure. If I've found the right man in the 1901 Census then the family were all from London with no obvious Ireland connection.

The pension cards only say that he died from "disease" and don't give a cause of death. Death was registered at Romford, Jan-Mar 1919. If you decide to go for the death certificate then be aware that you can now get them for just £2.50.

[Matlock1418]

Thread title: John Gerald Hickey, 28249 Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers

I would note that the pension records shows:  John/John Gerard HICKEY and some refer to the Royal Irish Fusiliers with others to the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers.

These alternatives may perhaps frustrate some searches.

One PIC gives his number as 8/28249 so I suspect originally 8th Bn.

As for going to the R. Innis Fus - a man went where the Army wanted [and I also understand that Irish Regiments were struggling for numbers, certainly mid to late war [there was no conscription there].

As for "Insane" - one PIC also shows Man Insane - the Army and the MoP could be quite abrupt in their descriptions.

If he was in an institution/asylum/mental hospital at time of death he could potentially be a long way from home - but starting near his mother's address would be the first place to begin.

I've come up with a possibility for him at FreeBMD:

Surname	First name(s)	Age	District	Vol	Page
Deaths Mar 1919   (>99%)
Hickey	John G	23	Romford	4a	683

GRO then offers:

HICKEY, JOHN  GERARD	23
GRO Reference: 1919  M Quarter in ROMFORD  Volume 04A  Page 683

Note GRO have his second forename as Gerard

That would also seem to make his YoB 1896 +/- 1y

A DC will be a necessity for a submission - though mental health discharge and DC cause of death may actually be a bit tricky to match.

As well as full-blown Certified Copy Certificates and JPEG GRO now offer a cheaper digital otion:

• Cost £2.50. Image available to view once payment is complete and a link to the image is provided on the order confirmation screen [once opened saving of image should then be possible]

Good luck - please let us know what the DC records

M

Edited 21 November , 2023 by Matlock1418
add

[Dirty Harry]

On 21/11/2023 at 02:02, PaulC78 said:

Discharged insane on 17/09/1918, the SER gives the date as 02/09/1918 but this doesn't appear to be accurate. His disability was dementia, originating July 1917 at Omagh and attributable to service during the war. Your first pension card says "serving" but this also seems to be in error. He was discharged to Claybury Asylum at Woodford Bridge, Essex, and was age 22 at that time.

Service record says he was born at Clerkenwell and that he enlisted on 03/08/1915, looks like he joined with the 27th Royal Fusiliers but not sure. If I've found the right man in the 1901 Census then the family were all from London with no obvious Ireland connection.

The pension cards only say that he died from "disease" and don't give a cause of death. Death was registered at Romford, Jan-Mar 1919. If you decide to go for the death certificate then be aware that you can now get them for just £2.50.

Thanks for the reply. Looks like I need the service records, time for a wee sub to fmp to start with.

ive started to come across other Londoners in the same 280 bracket all with the 8th battalion which would make sense for the 49th brigade was delayed arriving in France until February 16. These men must have been used to bolster the numbers prior to embarking.

 

thanks 

 

Paul 

[Dirty Harry]

On 21/11/2023 at 09:30, Matlock1418 said:

Thread title: John Gerald Hickey, 28249 Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers

I would note that the pension records shows:  John/John Gerard HICKEY and some refer to the Royal Irish Fusiliers with others to the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers.

These alternatives may perhaps frustrate some searches.

One PIC gives his number as 8/28249 so I suspect originally 8th Bn.

As for going to the R. Innis Fus - a man went where the Army wanted [and I also understand that Irish Regiments were struggling for numbers, certainly mid to late war [there was no conscription there].

As for "Insane" - one PIC also shows Man Insane - the Army and the MoP could be quite abrupt in their descriptions.

If he was in an institution/asylum/mental hospital at time of death he could potentially be a long way from home - but starting near his mother's address would be the first place to begin.

I've come up with a possibility for him at FreeBMD:

Surname	First name(s)	Age	District	Vol	Page
Deaths Mar 1919   (>99%)
Hickey	John G	23	Romford	4a	683

GRO then offers:

HICKEY, JOHN  GERARD	23
GRO Reference: 1919  M Quarter in ROMFORD  Volume 04A  Page 683

Note GRO have his second forename as Gerard

That would also seem to make his YoB 1896 +/- 1y

A DC will be a necessity for a submission - though mental health discharge and DC cause of death may actually be a bit tricky to match.

As well as full-blown Certified Copy Certificates and JPEG GRO now offer a cheaper digital otion:

• Cost £2.50. Image available to view once payment is complete and a link to the image is provided on the order confirmation screen [once opened saving of image should then be possible]

Good luck - please let us know what the DC records

M

Hi mat,

 

inniskilling and the Irish seem quite interchangeable on records at times, but could make the case harder.

as he was discharged from clayburn asylum then the Romford death certificate looks a good bet. Think I will have a punt. 
 

Will update 

 

thanks,

paul 

[Dirty Harry]

On 21/11/2023 at 09:30, Matlock1418 said:

Thread title: John Gerald Hickey, 28249 Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers

I would note that the pension records shows:  John/John Gerard HICKEY and some refer to the Royal Irish Fusiliers with others to the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers.

These alternatives may perhaps frustrate some searches.

One PIC gives his number as 8/28249 so I suspect originally 8th Bn.

As for going to the R. Innis Fus - a man went where the Army wanted [and I also understand that Irish Regiments were struggling for numbers, certainly mid to late war [there was no conscription there].

As for "Insane" - one PIC also shows Man Insane - the Army and the MoP could be quite abrupt in their descriptions.

If he was in an institution/asylum/mental hospital at time of death he could potentially be a long way from home - but starting near his mother's address would be the first place to begin.

I've come up with a possibility for him at FreeBMD:

Surname	First name(s)	Age	District	Vol	Page
Deaths Mar 1919   (>99%)
Hickey	John G	23	Romford	4a	683

GRO then offers:

HICKEY, JOHN  GERARD	23
GRO Reference: 1919  M Quarter in ROMFORD  Volume 04A  Page 683

Note GRO have his second forename as Gerard

That would also seem to make his YoB 1896 +/- 1y

A DC will be a necessity for a submission - though mental health discharge and DC cause of death may actually be a bit tricky to match.

As well as full-blown Certified Copy Certificates and JPEG GRO now offer a cheaper digital otion:

• Cost £2.50. Image available to view once payment is complete and a link to the image is provided on the order confirmation screen [once opened saving of image should then be possible]

Good luck - please let us know what the DC records

M

Got the certificate, and you were spot on Mat. The complication is that his death certificate list pulmonary tb as his cause of death.

 

Any idea what the CWGC WOULD THINK OF THIS?

 

Thannks,

 

Paul

[Matlock1418]

1 minute ago, Dirty Harry said:

Got the certificate, and you were spot on Mat. The complication is that his death certificate list pulmonary tb as his cause of death.

Any idea what the CWGC WOULD THINK OF THIS?

Thanks for the update.

Discharged with a mental condition and died from TB = Tricky = I think CWGC/JCCC will have a big problem with this - but I am not the ultimate arbitrator of this re: commemoration!

M

[Dirty Harry]

yeah thats what i was thinking.  Am gonna submit anyhow, John deserves it.

[Matlock1418]

7 minutes ago, Dirty Harry said:

yeah thats what i was thinking.  Am gonna submit anyhow, John deserves it.

I suspect you might get short shrift - but please let us know the initial response from CWGC and where your/his case might be next heading.

M

[PaulC78]

Recent adjudications have been pretty strict. Even if you can find evidence linking the tb to wartime service, the fact that he was discharged for something else would probably go against him. Still, I'd be very interested to know the response from CWGC.

[Dirty Harry]

I take your point. The fact his swb etc only list disease makes things tricky. Will have a look for other sources