Photo Identity

[CheshireRifles]

Hello GW Forum 

I have this photograph I’m trying to figure out which regiment it is. 
 

the photograph was taken in Stalybridge. 
 

but I can’t ID the Regiment. 
a Drummer Musician? 
any Ideas?

Sadly the postcard is quite faded now 

thank you. 
 

(I hope this post is in the correct part of the forum)

[squirrel]

From the badge on the Home Service pattern helmet it appears to be a number 12 in the centre . The 12th regiment of foot was the Suffolk regiment.                                                        He is a Drummer. Although he is holding a bugle, it was the Drummers who sounded the calls and you can just see the edge of the drummers badge on his upper right arm..

Other may have more information or further observations.

[CheshireRifles]

Thank you for the insight. I wonder why the Suffolk regiment was in the north west? Very interesting 

[FROGSMILE]

I don’t think there’s a 12 in the centre of his helmet plate, as the numbered centres on the stars were only worn between 1878 and 1881 at the latest, from which latter date the jam pot cuff style tunic was introduced.  I concur that he’s a drummer and also from an English or Welsh line infantry regiment without any ‘Royal’ appellation.  Unfortunately the collar badges are unclear, as is the motif at the centre of his helmet plate star because of the damage to the photo.  One slightly unusual feature for a regular army drummer is the Austrian knot decoration on his sleeves formed from the smaller width of drummers lace.  This was not universal, and only favoured by a few regiments for a short period before being abandoned, probably because a similar knot, but in plain lace, was an universal identifying feature of auxiliary volunteer battalions of part-time citizen soldiers, something that no regular would wish to be mistaken for.  A strong possibility for his regiment would be the Manchester Regiment, whose headquarters and depot was not that far away from Stalybridge in the Harts-head district of Ashton-under-Lyne.  The helmet plate centre (with motif) and collar badge can be seen below.  I would date the photo to around 1890.  There is a super range of Manchester Regiment insignia to be seen here:https://live.adampartridge.co.uk/m/lot-details/index/catalog/227/lot/127605

 

Edited 19 November , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[CheshireRifles]

54 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I don’t think there’s a 12 in the centre of his helmet plate, as the numbered centres on the stars were only worn between 1878 and 1881 at the latest, from which latter date the jam pot cuff style tunic was introduced.  I concur that he’s a drummer and also from an English or Welsh line infantry regiment without any ‘Royal’ appellation.  Unfortunately the collar badges are unclear, as is the motif at the centre of his helmet plate star because of the damage to the photo.  One slightly unusual feature for a regular army drummer is the Austrian knot decoration on his sleeves formed from the smaller width of drummers lace.  This was not universal, and only favoured by a few regiments for a short period before being abandoned, probably because a similar knot, but in plain lace, was an universal identifying feature of auxiliary volunteer battalions of part-time citizen soldiers, something that no regular would wish to be mistaken for.  A strong possibility for his regiment would be the Manchester Regiment, whose headquarters and depot was not that far away from Stalybridge in the Harts-head district of Ashton-under-Lyne.  The helmet plate centre (with motif) and collar badge can be seen below.  I would date the photo to around 1890.  There is a super range of Manchester Regiment insignia to be seen here:https://live.adampartridge.co.uk/m/lot-details/index/catalog/227/lot/127605

 

Thank you for your depth and knowledge. My Local Battalion Barracks is ladysmith and also Stalybridge Drill Hall.   This makes a lot of sense 

[FROGSMILE]

57 minutes ago, CheshireRifles said:

Thank you for your depth and knowledge. My Local Battalion Barracks is ladysmith and also Stalybridge Drill Hall.   This makes a lot of sense 

I’m pleased to help a fellow enthusiast.  Just behind his left cuff you can see the edge of the frog for his drummers sword.  These were issued to and worn by only drummers and bandsmen.  They existed for many years and were on occasion used in action during hand to hand melees, especially against indigenous native belligerents.

Edited 19 November , 2023 by FROGSMILE