peterw Posted 13 November , 2023 Share Posted 13 November , 2023 Please can you help me with the far right medal (PDF attached) , I believe it is a regimental medal RAMC or RADC (MS) I am presuming that part of the medal has broken off, would you be able to help me with a picture of the missing part of the medal (not sure if you know where i could find a replacement ?) I intend to clean and get them mounted. Many thanks. Kind regards, Peter Watson Pte Watson Medals.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 13 November , 2023 Share Posted 13 November , 2023 Hi Peter Can we have the name and other details from the other three medals. May help with ID. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted 14 November , 2023 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2023 Peter Awarded to 2102 ( this is the number stamped on the medal ) but his records show this army number to be 439450 Pte E Watson RAMC he died in the first half of 1919 from Spanish flu we think. He returned to England on on the ship St Patrick which was a british military hospital ship. He was serving with the 3rd South Midland Field Hospital. 1. the 1914-15 star 2. the 1914 -20 British war medal 3. the inter allied victory medal 4. ??? Regimental medial RAMC or RADC (MS) (the MS stand for military staff) This is bits of information that I have found online. If you look at the picture it looks like the medal has become detached from its top part Thank you for your help. Interestingly we also have at british war medal 1914-20 and a inter allied victory medal issued to 2412 private ES Watson but think these may be the same person but caused by a admin issue. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 14 November , 2023 Share Posted 14 November , 2023 Can't help with the extra medal but the 439450 number is a 1917 issue to a territorial force man of 3rd South Midland Field Ambulance. 439450 originally had a 4 digit number which from what you say should be 2102. I can't find a medal card to either number/name combination. There is an RAMC card to Edgar S Watson 2412. If this man was TF then he would have been re numbered with a 6 digit number in 1917. This only has the pair and no Star medal. Medal Cards don't always show every number a man served under, I've seen lots to RAMC that omit either the 4 or the 6 digit number. I don't know how it could come about that a trio of medals to 2102 Watson RAMC were issued as a doubled up error (including an erroneous Star medal) for 2412 Watson RAMC who also had his correct pair. There is probably another card to E Watson RAMC which shows a 6 digit number or the 2102 has been mis transcribed. Someone has gathered up a trio and a pair to 2 X 'Watsons' of the RAMC. Not impossible but very unlikely that the trio are a doubled up error. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 14 November , 2023 Share Posted 14 November , 2023 (edited) There is a 1914-15 Star roll entry for 2102 (corrected number) E Watson RAMC. He was discharged 26/5/1915 having served 3 months in France. He would have entitlement to the trio which you have. His medal card must be under his later number (even though he was not serving when it was issued?) Or a poor transcription is somewhere. Question is, is 2412 Edgar Stuart Watson the same person? 2102 (corrected) may have re enlisted or been conscripted and then serve as 2412/439450. If they are one and the same man then a double up error may have occurred. I'd want to find both cards and all roll entries to take this further, something may actually state there was an error. Normally if this happened the Medal Office would demand the return of the extra medals with the promise of a heavy handed visit! TEW Edited 14 November , 2023 by TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 14 November , 2023 Share Posted 14 November , 2023 There's a Soldiers' Effects entry for Edgar Stuart Watson 439450 RAMC. Which means 2412 & 439450 are the same man who has a pair. That leaves your trio to 2102. Can you double check each medal for the issue details, on the back for the Star, rim for the others. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 14 November , 2023 Share Posted 14 November , 2023 I muddled up the number earlier and wrote 2101 instead of 2102 for E Watson. Now I can only see medal details to 2101. Are the medals to 2101 or 2102 as you originally said? I've found an MIC to 2101 Ernest Watson RAMC for the three medals. Ancestry have transcribed it as 2107. Image courtesy of Ancestry I've also looked at the service record for Ernest Stuart Watson and it confirms that 2412 and 439450 are the same man. Assuming the medals are impressed to 2101 and not 2102 then 2101 Ernest Watson RAMC went to France 29/3/1915 which entitled him to the trio. He was discharged 26/5/1915. No specific unit known within RAMC. Then the interesting part; Ernest Stuart Watson enlists 12/5/1915 in Bristol as 2412 RAMC. He states no previous service. He embarked for France January 1916 so missed out on a Star medal. He was posted to various South Midland FAs. He is re-numbered 439450 in early 1917 and died of VDH in March 1919. (Valvular disorder of the heart). No Spanish Flu that I can see. It's quite feasible that 2101 re-enlisted as 2412 and lied about previous service. The dates of discharge and enlistment are very close. None of the MICs, rolls or records I've seen show that anyone worked out they were the same man. So, it seems plausible that there has been a double issue of medals. There is nothing so far to give an age, geographical location or RAMC unit to 2101. Proving beyond all doubt that there are the same man is not going to be a 100% certainty. NB. as he had deceased the onus falls upon his Father George who signed for the medals to 2412/439450 E S Watson. Did he also sign for the trio for 2101? TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted 14 November , 2023 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2023 Dont know if the father signed for the originals but they were mounted so some one has been using them in the past This gets interesting. I have check the numbers on the medals and they are stated above so it does look like he has a double issue of two. I am rall trying to find out about the forth medal which tink is a regimental medal, it looks like the medal has broken off an I was trying to find out what it looked like and it i can get a replacement Please see PDF first row 4th down for the ribbon of this medal Peter Pte Watson Medals.pdf Regimental Medals.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted 14 November , 2023 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2023 From some of the paper work i have now found it look like he re enlisted and was given a new number ? why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 14 November , 2023 Share Posted 14 November , 2023 You say; I have check the numbers on the medals and they are stated above. Does this mean the number is 2102?, if so things are very odd. 57 minutes ago, peterw said: From some of the paper work i have now found it look like he re enlisted and was given a new number ? why ? I mentioned this earlier. If it is the same man he was discharged. The discharged man wanted to serve so joined again and lied about his former service. I know it's the 4th medal you're most interested in but it maybe relevant to know if he was 2101 or 2102. I don't recognise the medal ribbon and it's not in my medal book so it may not be a military issue. Not sure how a Regimental Medal works with the RAMC or how any unit would sanction a ribbon design. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted 15 November , 2023 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2023 Thank you for your help. The 4th older medal which were mounted (see pic) were 2101 the fourth being what I believe to a regimental (corps) medal (see attached from internet). It does look like you theory of him lying and re enlisting is the only logical explanation to why he has two sets of medals. Do you have any thoughts about how I find out about regimental (corps) medal ? Many thanks again for your help. Peter Regimental Medals.pdf Pte Watson Medals.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 15 November , 2023 Share Posted 15 November , 2023 The ribbon of your 4th medal certainly seems to match the RADC ribbon. Although I can't find another example online. However, the RADC did not form till 1921 and E Watson died in March 1919. Having said that we can't prove 100% that the two Ernest Watsons of RAMC are the same man. I'm seeing 275 birth registrations to 'Ernest Watson' born 1890 +/- 10 years. 2101 was discharged in 1915 and was entitled to the trio. If he's not the same as 2412 then he may have re-enlisted in the RAMC and then transferred to RADC in which case the MOD may have a record for him but you have very little to help ID him further. If the two men are one and the same then perhaps another family member was entitled to the RADC medal and added it to the group for Armistice Day. Perhaps contact the British Medal Forum. https://britishmedalforum.com/ucp.php?mode=login As far as you know have you or family always had both sets of medals? TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted 16 November , 2023 Author Share Posted 16 November , 2023 The medals have been in the family (various parts) since he died. Thanks for the tip on the british medal forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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