Name to a capsized White Nile steamer 29th May 1917

[davidbohl]

I'd be grateful for the name of this steamer please as the Sgt Lloyd Williams was the brother of my casualty Pte #51616 Reginald Williams 17/KLR.

I was unaware the region was subject to hurricanes so were they categorised differently then.

Any background to the incident most welcome.

Many thanks

Dave

 

From the BNA

[michaeldr]

One possibility is the Amara

 

From A register of named power-driven river & marine harbour craft commissioned in the Sudan 1856-1964 compiled by Richard Hill

AMARA … Egyptian Goverment afterwards Sudan Government, stern wheel steamer, hull and engine by Elder, length 95ft., beam 20ft., 100 hp., commissioned in 1885 for service below the Second Cataract. She accompanied the expedition for the reconquest of the Sudan. Her hull was lengthened and her superstructure rebuilt in 1906. In May 1917, while towing four barges ahead and none alongside, she turned turtle in a storm near Khor Galhak, 25 miles south of Renk, with loss of life.

 

[davidbohl]

1 minute ago, michaeldr said:

in a storm

That's excellent michaeldr, many thanks.

A storm sounds more plausible than a hurricane

[michaeldr]

See also https://www.joh.cam.ac.uk/sites/default/files/Eagle/Eagle Volumes/1910s/1918/Eagle_1917_Michaelmas.pdf page 59 [32 of the pdf]

 

GUY THWAITES, D.S.O.

Major Guy Thwaites, D.S.O., of the Egyptian Army, was drowned on 29 May 1917 by the capsizing of a small Sudan Mail Steamer, the Amara, during a sudden hurricane on the White Nile, about a hundred miles north of Fashoda. He was the fifth son of the late Rev. Henry Graham Thwaites and of Mrs Clara Thwaites, of 14 Cambridge Park, Durdham Downes, Bristol. Born 4 November 1877 at Bulkington, Warwickshire, he was educated at Malvern College and St Paul's School, London, entering St John's in 1897. He served in the South African War 1899- 1902, taking Part in the operations in Natal, including the action at Lombard's Kop ; at the defence of Ladysmith, including the sortie of 7 December 1899 (Mentioned in despatches, London Gazette, 8 February 1901) ; he took part in the operations in the Orange River Colony in February 1902, and in the Transvaal from March to 31 May 1902. He was awarded the Queen's Medal with four clasps. His first commission, in the Army Service Corps, was dated 1 May 1901 ; he was promoted Lieutenant in the following year, and was gazetted Captain 1 May 1906. In June 1914 he was seconded for duty with the Egyptian Army, and took part in the Darfur campaign in 1915, when he was mentioned in despatches and received the D.S.O. He was returning from the Niger Expedition in the Southern Sudan to Khartum, when the steamer in which he was, after collision with the bank, capsized in mid-stream.

Edited 13 November , 2023 by michaeldr

[michaeldr]

21 hours ago, davidbohl said:

At first sight the CWGC records for these two men do not seem to match at all.
Williams - https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/1647569/lloyd-williams/ shows the correct date of death, however, despite his drowning in the White Nile in Sudan, he is remembered on the Jerusalem Memorial (a very long way away indeed!)
Thwaites - https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/905171/guy-thwaites/
shows a d-of-d one day later on 30th May 1917, and he is buried in KHARTOUM WAR CEMETERY 

[davidbohl]

1 hour ago, michaeldr said:

remembered on the Jerusalem Memorial

Another chap attached to Egyptian Army same d.of.d https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/1647113/william-james-smith/

[michaeldr]

42 minutes ago, davidbohl said:

Another chap attached to Egyptian Army same d.of.d https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/1647113/william-james-smith/

I'm very sorry, but I don't quite understand the point which you are trying to make here. Was Capt W J Smith also on the Amara when it sank?

[davidbohl]

Just noting the similarities between Smith and Thwaites, both remembered at Jerusalem, both Egyptian Army and both 29th May 1917

[michaeldr]

2 hours ago, michaeldr said:

Thwaites - https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/905171/guy-thwaites/
shows a d-of-d one day later on 30th May 1917, and he is buried in KHARTOUM WAR CEMETERY 

Checking CWGC listings for both 29th and 30th May 1917 and Thwaites is the the only name which crops up with respect to Khartoum War Cemetery. Perhaps his was the only body recovered. But none of this explains why 

2 hours ago, michaeldr said:

Williams - https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/1647569/lloyd-williams/

is remembered on a memorial in another continent thousands of miles away from where he died.

A bit of a puzzle

 

[michaeldr]

22 hours ago, michaeldr said:

In May 1917, while towing four barges ahead and none alongside, she turned turtle in a storm near Khor Galhak, 25 miles south of Renk, with loss of life.

The place where the Amara sank, Galhak (or Gelhak) and Renk can be seen on the map below

This is a crop from the modern map found at https://www.loc.gov/resource/g8315.ct003486/

[michaeldr]

Do you know if Williams and Thwaites were serving in the same unit at the time, 
or is it just a coincidence that they were on the same steamer when she sank?

The Thwaites obit gives “He was returning from the Niger Expedition in the Southern Sudan to Khartum”
I think that the reference to “Niger” may possibly be mistaken. The only 'expedition' in that part of the country at that time which I can find any ref to was that against the Lau-Nuer – see http://www.onlinemedals.co.uk/medal-encyclopaedia/pre-ww1-medals/khedive’s-sudan-medal-1910 
“... in operations under the command of Major E.A.T Bayly DSO, against the Lau Nuer in the Bor district of Mongolla, in reprisal for the Lau Nuers participation in raids against the Dinkas and the killing of a British officer and 8 Sudenese infantrymen in an earlier encounter.
Operations took place during March, April and May 1917...”

[davidbohl]

11 minutes ago, michaeldr said:

Do you know if Williams and Thwaites were serving in the same unit at the time, 
or is it just a coincidence that they were on the same steamer when she sank?

This is the most info I have:-

Lloyd’s death was announced in the Lancashire Evening Post on 31st May 1917:   

“Lancaster Ex-Soldier Loses Third Son:

Mr. Ellis Williams, Hanmer Place, Bowerham, Lancaster, who had 25 years’ service with the King’s Own Royal Lancaster Regiment, the author of several well-known soldier stories in prose and verse, has had the ill-fortune to lose a third son in the war.  He has today received news that his fourth son, Sergt. Lloyd Williams, who was serving with his father’s old regiment, the King’s Own, and attached to the headquarters staff at Khartoum, was drowned on the White Nile through the steamer on which he was travelling capsizing in a hurricane.  He was previously wounded in France, and invalided home through shell concussion.  He went out to Egypt and took part in the successful Darpur [Darfur] expedition, of which he sent home a description.   

[michaeldr]

The MiC (WO 372/21/197900) does not give much away:
10480 Sgt. Lloyd Williams (KO) R. Lanc R.
Theatre of War (1) France – Qualifying Date 15/1/15
Drowned
Awarded Victory/British/15-Star 

Having established that the steamer here was the Amara, 
then perhaps if you require further info on this man it might be an idea to ask the Mods to move this thread out of 'Sailors, navies and the war at sea' and into 'Soldiers and their units'.  Hopefully, there it will attract the attention of those who can offer more help

Good Luck
Michael

Edited 14 November , 2023 by michaeldr
correction to reg. number

[davidbohl]

1 hour ago, michaeldr said:

perhaps if you require further info on this man

Thanks for you help Michael,

Sgt Lloyd W. was just a brother of the casualty I'm looking into, as quoted in the o/p.

I think we have established enough about him at the present time.

Dave