Uniforms of Padres/Chaplains WW1

[Glengarry1950]

Hi Frogsmile, 

Further to my enquiry on the forum about the funeral of CSM John 'Jock' Kendrick Skinner VC, DCM, K.O.S.B. and the 9 VC holders of the 29th Division who carried his coffin and attended the funeral, I am half way through completing an oil painting of the event, I have based this on a letter written by an unnamed young officer who had a long chat and tea made by Skinner in his dugout the night before he was killed by a sniper bring in a wounded man. The letter is very detailed, saying that a staff officer from the Division arrived say that the best gun team in the division are currently cleaning their kit feverishly and they will transport his coffin to the grave yard the gun carriage was pulled by four black horses, he saluted jocks coffin covered in the union flag, before it set off, he could not make the 17 miles because of injuries to his feet, the Battalion which had come out of the line at midnight attended in steel helmets, a firing party fired over the coffin and the Pipes and Drums played a verse of the 'Flowers of the Forest' after each and the buglers sounded off the last post after the final volley. Skinner was killed on the 17 March 1918, his body was recovered by his friend CSM Stevenson and he was buried on the 19 March at about 1500hrs the weather closed in and rained at the end. So as you can see I have the scene from this letter, and I have no problem in painting the uniforms worn by all those in attendance from Pte's NCO's, Officers and a general. However, although I have done the drawing of the Padre Capt Swallow MC from the rear as he stands over the open grave as the six poll bearers bring the coffin, I am struggling to get an accurate photograph of a padre in WW1, I have drawn him with a white shroud/frock and a black or white scarf, I think there will be a cross on the scarf positioned about the centre nap of the neck?

Rambled on a bit I know but it set the scene, after all that I am looking for any photographs of WW1 Padres in that form of dress.

I hope you are well.

Warm wishes

Hiram

[FROGSMILE]

23 hours ago, Glengarry1950 said:

Hi Frogsmile, 

Further to my enquiry on the forum about the funeral of CSM John 'Jock' Kendrick Skinner VC, DCM, K.O.S.B. and the 9 VC holders of the 29th Division who carried his coffin and attended the funeral, I am half way through completing an oil painting of the event, I have based this on a letter written by an unnamed young officer who had a long chat and tea made by Skinner in his dugout the night before he was killed by a sniper bring in a wounded man. The letter is very detailed, saying that a staff officer from the Division arrived say that the best gun team in the division are currently cleaning their kit feverishly and they will transport his coffin to the grave yard the gun carriage was pulled by four black horses, he saluted jocks coffin covered in the union flag, before it set off, he could not make the 17 miles because of injuries to his feet, the Battalion which had come out of the line at midnight attended in steel helmets, a firing party fired over the coffin and the Pipes and Drums played a verse of the 'Flowers of the Forest' after each and the buglers sounded off the last post after the final volley. Skinner was killed on the 17 March 1918, his body was recovered by his friend CSM Stevenson and he was buried on the 19 March at about 1500hrs the weather closed in and rained at the end. So as you can see I have the scene from this letter, and I have no problem in painting the uniforms worn by all those in attendance from Pte's NCO's, Officers and a general. However, although I have done the drawing of the Padre Capt Swallow MC from the rear as he stands over the open grave as the six poll bearers bring the coffin, I am struggling to get an accurate photograph of a padre in WW1, I have drawn him with a white shroud/frock and a black or white scarf, I think there will be a cross on the scarf positioned about the centre nap of the neck?

Rambled on a bit I know but it set the scene, after all that I am looking for any photographs of WW1 Padres in that form of dress.

I hope you are well.

Warm wishes

Hiram

Hello Hiram,

It sounds a very evocative scene and I commend your efforts to paint it faithfully.  It all sounds perfect apart from the description you have given of the padre’s dress.  They did not routinely wear long cassocks for funerals in the field near the frontline**, and yet that’s what you seem to describe.  First what is the evidence for this dress?   Second what denomination was the padre (chaplain) concerned?

Frogsmile

**large drumhead services in rear areas were a different matter.

 

Edited 12 November , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

Some of the denominations were more observant of religious dress protocols and it also depended a great deal on how close to the front line an interment took place.  As you might imagine white elements of the padre’s vestments presented a rich target.

 

Edited 12 November , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Glengarry1950]

Hi Frogsmile,

The Padre was Welsh and attached to the 29th Division, I suspect he would have worn his full robs as this was an unprecedented one-off event arranged by the 29th Division staff, Skinner was a revered individual right across the Division, he was not meant to be back on the front line after being awarded his VC by the King and convalescent after his 8^th wound, however, being the man he was he made his way back to the regiment, the divisional commander saw him and asked him why are you back Skinner, after some banter on Skinners part, the commander said well it is good to see you, however, I think you have done your bit and left it at that.

The Rev Swallow kept a diary on all the funerals that he conducted, after the war he opened a boys school in Coventry for boys who had lost their fathers in the war. He retired in 1950, the new headmaster found his diaries in the schools attic he published them in 2010, see front page of the book attached, I had the archivist at the Scottish National Library look at their copy to see if he listed all the VC holders in attendance at the funeral but it was silent, however, I have learnt that the book does not contain all the details in the diaries as there was too much information, that said if it is possible to locate the diaries the answer may be contained within the pages.

I have written to the VC & GC Association and received a very helpful reply however there information was based on the information received from our regimental secretary in 1984. The Imperial War Museum were totally unhelpful with a curt reply, that they do not do research and do not have the time or energy to undertake my request, ever though I was requesting their help as part of my regimental museum, all rather disappointing from the IWM.

I think all said and done the Padre would have been in his full regalia for this one as Brigadier General Bernard Freyberg VC 29^th Division and 88 Brigade Commander was in attendance.

A unique event in the history, not just of WW1 but in the British Army as a whole.

Cheers

Hiram

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, Glengarry1950 said:

Hi Frogsmile,

The Padre was Welsh and attached to the 29th Division, I suspect he would have worn his full robs as this was an unprecedented one-off event arranged by the 29th Division staff, Skinner was a revered individual right across the Division, he was not meant to be back on the front line after being awarded his VC by the King and convalescent after his 8^th wound, however, being the man he was he made his way back to the regiment, the divisional commander saw him and asked him why are you back Skinner, after some banter on Skinners part, the commander said well it is good to see you, however, I think you have done your bit and left it at that.

The Rev Swallow kept a diary on all the funerals that he conducted, after the war he opened a boys school in Coventry for boys who had lost their fathers in the war. He retired in 1950, the new headmaster found his diaries in the schools attic he published them in 2010, see front page of the book attached, I had the archivist at the Scottish National Library look at their copy to see if he listed all the VC holders in attendance at the funeral but it was silent, however, I have learnt that the book does not contain all the details in the diaries as there was too much information, that said if it is possible to locate the diaries the answer may be contained within the pages.

I have written to the VC & GC Association and received a very helpful reply however there information was based on the information received from our regimental secretary in 1984. The Imperial War Museum were totally unhelpful with a curt reply, that they do not do research and do not have the time or energy to undertake my request, ever though I was requesting their help as part of my regimental museum, all rather disappointing from the IWM.

I think all said and done the Padre would have been in his full regalia for this one as Brigadier General Bernard Freyberg VC 29^th Division and 88 Brigade Commander was in attendance.

A unique event in the history, not just of WW1 but in the British Army as a whole.

Cheers

Hiram

Hello Hiram,

Thank you for your informative reply.  Now that you have given more detail of the context I think that you are probably correct about the ecclesiastical robes, as the event would have been in a rearwards, and relatively benign area given the attendees, rather than a field burial.  I’ll see what images I can find.  One suggestion I would make to add to your sources of information is to write to the Armed Forces Chaplaincy Centre that after a rather musical chairs existence eventually found itself a billet at the Defence Academy In Shrivenham.  See: https://royalarmychaplainsmuseum.business.site  I will be very surprised if they do not reply.

 I will do some digging over the next few days regarding the images you seek and then get back to you.

Yours aye,

Frogsmile 

P.S.  I entirely concur with your pithy assessment of the IWM.

Edited 11 November , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

@Glengarry1950Hello Hiram,

I’m sorry for the slight delay but I have been researching the matter as best I can in between other things.

My overall impression is that burial services were only conducted in clerical vestments in the rear areas when and where it was relatively safe, those more hasty burials in forward areas were conducted in service dress as mentioned and seen in the various photos above.

As regards the vestments worn and the appearance from the rear it’s been difficult to find clear views but I’ve gained the impression of two main features, first that the principal aspects were driven by the chaplaincy’s origins in the Anglican Communion** and secondly that apart from very minor modifications the general appearance of the robes has changed very little up to the present day.  With these two factors in mind I’m enclosing a combination of images of Anglican robes, contemporary photos from WW1, and more modern photos that give a better view of detail.

As a minimum the vestments seems to comprise three main garments as a routinely acceptable form of dress.  The base garment was the black cassock down to the shins and beneath which were worn long black stockings and stout shoes.  Over the cassock went the Alb, which was another long garment, creating an outer layer that often seems to have been purple or maroon in colour.

Then overlaid was the Chasuble, which was white and quite loose, with very wide sleeves, heavy pleating at the back (rather like an old fashioned farmers ‘smock’), and often decorative embroidery, with traditional designs and sometimes individual aspects that meant something personal to the wearer.  The length of this latter varied and could be either hip length, or down to the knee, but the top was open and the clerical collar and neck of the cassock and chasuble could usually be seen beneath.

Over the top of the layers of robes and hanging forward from around the neck was the stole, which had two ends that hovered above the wearers feet.  This was the most important item militarily and in extremis could be the only clerical vestment worn over the top of the uniform.  It usually had a Christian emblem on each of the hanging ends, a sort of badge indicating the allegiance of the priest concerned.  It could be as simple as a plain cross, but for Anglican chaplains this was invariably the emblem of the Army Chaplains Department.  It was also the item on which medals and medal ribbons were worn.

**originally formed from the Anglican establishment in 1769, Roman Catholics were not included until 1836.  Finally, in the 1880s, non-conformists joined the department, but not without some fuss.  They did not at first want to wear uniform, nor did they like the idea of wearing military style rank badges.  It took some time for them to be talked around, but by 1914 the department had achieved a sense of coherence, notwithstanding their differing denominations, that included by then Judaism.

 

Edited 19 November , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

Here are some views from WW1 and later periods that serve to show how little the chaplain’s ensemble changed.

 

Edited 17 November , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

And finally, the facing colour of the chaplains at that time was black, and not the purple of today.  This was reflected on WW1 service dress for chaplains via a black mohair edging to their shoulder straps.  Interestingly the colour had until 1899 been shared with the Army Medical Department and the Indian Medical Service, so there was perhaps a typically British, uniformly gloomy view, concerning priests and the likelihood of survival via the care of army medical services.  Each chaplain was provided with a ‘communion set’, which was usually a lockable wooden box within which were kept the minimum requirements, vestments wise, sufficient to hold a communion service.

Edited 19 November , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Glengarry1950]

Hi Frogsmile,

Thank you so very much for your wonderful in-depth reply, I now feel quite confident in painting the padre in the scene with correct attire. I started researching this event over a year ago it was only a few weeks into it that Susan our museum archivist showed the letter that I believe was written by a young officer mainly because how he addresses Jock Skinner while they were having a conversation in Skinners dugout, as he was about to leave Skinner asked if he would like a brew, he replied, as water was short, 'Yes Sergent Major' now if that had been a friend he would have addressed him as Jock, or if a junior rank 'Aye Sir' but with him addressing him by has Sergeant Major indicate he is a young officer.

He goes on to give a full account of the funeral, that help me in my mind construct the drawing that you see, I started painting it at the beginning of September, having completed the drawings and transferred it onto canvas, still a great deal of work to do, but it is taking shape, the canvas size is 61cm by 40cm.

Once again thank you for your as aways sound advice and help.

Cheers

Hiram

Edited 18 November , 2023 by Glengarry1950

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Glengarry1950 said:

Hi Frogsmile,

Thank you so very much for your wonderful in-depth reply, I now feel quite confident in painting the padre in the scene with correct attire. I started researching this event over a year ago it was only a few weeks into it that Susan our museum archivist showed the letter that I believe was written by a young officer mainly because how he addresses Jock Skinner while they were having a conversation in Skinners dugout, as he was about to leave Skinner asked if he would like a brew, he replied, as water was short, 'Yes Sergent Major' now if that had been a friend he would have addressed him as Jock, or if a junior rank 'Aye Sir' but with him addressing him by has Sergeant Major indicate he is a young officer.

He goes on to give a full account of the funeral, that help me in my mind construct the drawing that you see, I started painting it at the beginning of September, having completed the drawings and transferred it onto canvas, still a great deal of work to do, but it is taking shape, the canvas size is 61cm by 40cm.

Once again thank you for your as aways sound advice and help.

Cheers

Hiram

I’m very pleased to help a little Hiram and I think that your artistic efforts to record the service are very laudable.  I hope that you will post the finished artwork here, it certainly appears as a very evocative and moving scene.

Edited 18 November , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Glengarry1950]

22 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I’m very pleased to help a little Hiram and I think that your artistic efforts to record the service are very laudable.  I hope that you will post the finished artwork here, it certainly appears as a very evocative and moving scene.

Thank you for your kind words, I will certainly post the finished work here for you to see it will be next year sometime.

[FROGSMILE]

Just now, Glengarry1950 said:

Thank you for your kind words, I will certainly post the finished work here for you to see it will be next year sometime.

I have always enjoyed your regimental work so I shall look forward to it.