Lt H C Greenwood, RNVR

[Simon Cains]

Hello, I am trying to find any more details about a Lieutenant H C Greenwood, RNVR.  A film "Harvest from the skies" says that he was in Germany before the war working on their nitrogen-fixing industry.  After or even during the war he helped to design a British manufacturing process using the knowledge he had picked up in Germany.  The film says he was still young.   Around 5 mins 50 in the film.  I don't know if this is actually him in the film or an actor.  (It seems odd that he would be working on a chemical production plant in his full navy uniform).  Thanks very much.

 

[horatio2]

Harold Cecil GREENWOOD RNVR record   -   https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8672124

BNritish War Medal only - but never claimed.

His RNAS record   -   https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9748047

Edited 10 November , 2023 by horatio2

[horatio2]

London Gazette 31421 - 24 JUNE 1919

..... appointments to the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, in recognition of the service of the undermentioned Officers during the War:  To be Officers of the Military Division of the said Most Excellent Order:  Lieutenant Harold Cecil Greenwood, R.N.V.R. For valuable services as Research Chemist, Munitions Inventions Department, Ministry of Munitions.

 

[KizmeRD]

I wouldn’t necessarily agree with what the film says in that H.C. Greenwood was not the only British chemist to have worked in Germany prior to the war, or that the solution to the problem of making nitrogen from the air was his achievement. 

Fritz Haber was first to attempt to synthesize ammonia from the elements, and the process that now famously bears his name was developed in 1909 at the BASF plant in Ludwwigshafen with the assistance of Robert Le Rossignol, a young British chemical engineer from the Channel Islands (who then moved on to work at Osram in Berlin). He was interned briefly during World War I before being released to resume his occupation. His position eventually led to His Majesty's Government formulating a national policy regarding released British internees in Germany. After the war Le Rossignol spent his professional life at the GEC laboratories in the UK, first making fundamental contributions to the development of high-power radio transmitting valves, then later developing smaller valves used as mobile power sources in the airborne radars of World War II. Le Rossignol became quite wealthy in his lifetime, thanks to the royalties coming in from the widespread production of synthesised nitrogen in agriculture. ICI at Billingham was only one such nitrate fertiliser manufacturer.

The significance of this work during wartime however, was of course its use in the manufacture of explosives and (after a brief spell in 1915 an RNVR officer engaged in experimental work with RNAS, Greenwood was demobilised and put in charge of the Research Laboratory of the Ministry of Munitions at University College (1916-18) dealing with the synthesis of ammonia from its elements. As a young student Greenwood had studied under Professor Haber at the University of Karlsruhe, so he would have obviously learnt a lot of interesting information from his time in Germany in relation to the production of industrial gasses (additional to his own research and studies at Manchester University - where he was awarded his PhD in 1912). Unfortunately Greenwood died in 1919 due to blood poisoning.

MB

Edited 10 November , 2023 by KizmeRD

[Simon Cains]

5 hours ago, horatio2 said:

London Gazette 31421 - 24 JUNE 1919

..... appointments to the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, in recognition of the service of the undermentioned Officers during the War:  To be Officers of the Military Division of the said Most Excellent Order:  Lieutenant Harold Cecil Greenwood, R.N.V.R. For valuable services as Research Chemist, Munitions Inventions Department, Ministry of Munitions.

 

Hi, thank you for both of those pieces of info.

[Simon Cains]

1 hour ago, KizmeRD said:

I wouldn’t necessarily agree with what the film says in that H.C. Greenwood was not the only British chemist to have worked in Germany prior to the war, or that the solution to the problem of making nitrogen from the air was his achievement. 

Fritz Haber was first to attempt to synthesize ammonia from the elements, and the process that now famously bears his name was developed in 1909 at the BASF plant in Ludwwigshafen with the assistance of Robert Le Rossignol, a young British chemical engineer from the Channel Islands (who then moved on to work at Osram in Berlin). He was interned briefly during World War I before being released to resume his occupation. His position eventually led to His Majesty's Government formulating a national policy regarding released British internees in Germany. After the war Le Rossignol spent his professional life at the GEC laboratories in the UK, first making fundamental contributions to the development of high-power radio transmitting valves, then later developing smaller valves used as mobile power sources in the airborne radars of World War II. Le Rossignol became quite wealthy in his lifetime, thanks to the royalties coming in from the widespread production of synthesised nitrogen in agriculture. ICI at Billingham was only one such nitrate fertiliser manufacturer.

The significance of this work during wartime however, was of course its use in the manufacture of explosives and (after a brief spell in 1915 an RNVR officer engaged in experimental work with RNAS, Greenwood was demobilised and put in charge of the Research Laboratory of the Ministry of Munitions at University College (1916-18) dealing with the synthesis of ammonia from its elements. As a young student Greenwood had studied under Professor Haber at the University of Karlsruhe, so he would have obviously learnt a lot of interesting information from his time in Germany in relation to the production of industrial gasses (additional to his own research and studies at Manchester University - where he was awarded his PhD in 1912). Unfortunately Greenwood died in 1919 due to blood poisoning.

MB

Thank you for tracking all that down, very helpful.  My Dad worked at ICI Billingham and he is preparing a talk on the history, including the film.  Did you get all that from a long obituary somewhere ?  

[KizmeRD]

The film was made sometime during the fifties, so I was a bit surprised seeing it claimed that H.C. Greenwood was working at Billingham wearing RNVR uniform (which limits the time frame down to summer of 1915 through to summer of 1916). Is there any actual documentary evidence that Greenwood ever worked for ICI (or one of its predecessor companies?). It’s my belief that his wartime research activity all occurred in the London area.

His RNVR service sheet provides some biographical information, as does the foreword to his own book on Industrial Gasses. Other information as to his relatively short life (he died aged 32) comes from bits and pieces written in various science journals.

Good luck with your Dad’s talk.

MB

[Tawhiri]

Apparently he also wrote a book called Industrial Gases that was published the same year that he died, as noted by KizmeRD.

https://www.walkaboutbooks.net/pages/books/2260/harold-cecil-greenwood-samuel-rideal-introduction/industrial-gases

There is a three page obituary for him that was published in the Journal of the Chemical Society, Transactions in 1920, that starts on page 462 of the linked article.

https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/1920/ct/ct9201700444

If the obituary is of interest and you can't download the linked .pdf, let me know and I would be more than happy to message you a copy.

Edited 10 November , 2023 by Tawhiri

[Simon Cains]

1 hour ago, KizmeRD said:

The film was made sometime during the fifties, so I was a bit surprised seeing it claimed that H.C. Greenwood was working at Billingham wearing RNVR uniform (which limits the time frame down to summer of 1915 through to summer of 1916). Is there any actual documentary evidence that Greenwood ever worked for ICI (or one of its predecessor companies?). It’s my belief that his wartime research activity all occurred in the London area.

His RNVR service sheet provides some biographical information, as does the foreword to his own book on Industrial Gasses. Other information as to his relatively short life (he died aged 32) comes from bits and pieces written in various science journals.

Good luck with your Dad’s talk.

MB

OK if the film was made in the fifties I would guess it is just an actor doing a "dramatic reconstruction" or whatever they call it on TV.  Certainly looked surprisingly good quality to be filmed in the 1920s.  Thanks.

[Simon Cains]

2 hours ago, Tawhiri said:

Apparently he also wrote a book called Industrial Gases that was published the same year that he died, as noted by KizmeRD.

https://www.walkaboutbooks.net/pages/books/2260/harold-cecil-greenwood-samuel-rideal-introduction/industrial-gases

There is a three page obituary for him that was published in the Journal of the Chemical Society, Transactions in 1920, that starts on page 462 of the linked article.

https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/1920/ct/ct9201700444

If the obituary is of interest and you can't download the linked .pdf, let me know and I would be more than happy to message you a copy.

Hi thanks, would you be able to send me that obituary, if that is allowed ?    Sorry I am not in any institution that has access.   Thanks very much. 

Edited 10 November , 2023 by Simon Cains

[Tawhiri]

@Simon Cains, sent via the forum's own messaging system.

[Simon Cains]

19 minutes ago, Tawhiri said:

@Simon Cains, sent via the forum's own messaging system.

Thanks, I didn't realise there is a messaging system on here.

[KizmeRD]

Whilst at the Munitions Invention Dept. Grenwood also worked alongside another British Chemist who had studied at the Universities of Aachen and Bonn. His name was Eric Rideal and together they were successful in producing a prototype pressure reactor for the purposes of nitrogen fixation. It seems to be that anyone involved on the cutting edge of chemistry during the pre-war period had travelled over to Germany in oder to study how things were being done there. 
MB

 

[KizmeRD]

I have just read the obituary and so now appreciate the connection to Billingham (the new site on the Tees being developed for the production of ammonium nitrate). He was employed there as Chief Research Chemist after the Armistice up until his untimely death in 1919.

MB