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Confusing shell case markings


lanchester

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Hi all

I'm usually OK with identifying shell case markings, but a recently acquired one has got me stumped. It appears to have been re-used, but I can't identify and manufactuers, dates, or calibre markings. I'd be very grateful for advise, especially towars source sof information that could help me identify these sorts of more complcated markings.

The case is 2 1/16 in / 52.5 mm inside dia x 7 11/16 in / 196 mm length, rimmed, with primer tube. Images attached.

Thank you!

20231107_154733.jpg

20231107_155000.jpg

20231107_155147.jpg

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39 minutes ago, lanchester said:

Hi all

I'm usually OK with identifying shell case markings, but a recently acquired one has got me stumped. It appears to have been re-used, but I can't identify and manufactuers, dates, or calibre markings. I'd be very grateful for advise, especially towars source sof information that could help me identify these sorts of more complcated markings.

The case is 2 1/16 in / 52.5 mm inside dia x 7 11/16 in / 196 mm length, rimmed, with primer tube. Images attached.

Thank you!

20231107_154733.jpg

20231107_155000.jpg

20231107_155147.jpg

Hi lanchester.

Should none of our experts here be able to assist then the 'International Ammunition Forum Inc' has many members that are only too willing to help. I am a member and have found it of great use. The forum is free to join and works in much the same way as we do. 

https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org

Regards

Gunner

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It looks to be dated 1899 and might have been for a QF 6-Pdr Hotchkiss had the diameter been 57 mm or 2.244 inches?

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I’m thinking it’s a 3 Pounder Hotchkiss case converted into a saluting blank. It looks like the original press in primer has been converted to screw in to make it more easy to reload. The 12 10 OZ marking would refer to the quantity of black powder it would be loaded with.

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Hi

Thanks very much for this. I've spent the last hour looking at various Hotchkiss info, but I've not been able to reconcile the case dimensions with those for the calibres that I've found. I'll look again for 3 pounders of 1899, as previously dated above.

The 10oz marking is possibly partially crossed out, with 12 stamped above. Does this relate to a change of weight of the charge? Thanks again; very intriguing !

 

 

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Definitely looks like a round for the QF 3-Pdr Hotchkiss but obviously cut down in length. 

image.png

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As Spaceman says, it is a tapered case that has been cut down so the current neck diameter is wider than the original projectile diameter (47mm). I wonder if it has been further cut down to make an ashtray or suchlike as there doesn’t seem to much room for the charge in relation to the length of the primer tube.

Yes the 10 and 12 numbers may suggest they changed their minds as to what charge weight to use.

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Thank you Spaceman. I'd not considered it to be as early as 1899, so I might not have been looking at early enough guns. However, the open end is 55mm OD and 52.5mm ID, with no evidence of flaring out.

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Thank you both for your further thoughts. It's the reduction in length to give an anomalous mouth diameter that particularly threw me. Its still quite long; image attached. Thanks again.

20231107_154911.jpg

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It's likely that you have a case that has been converted to be a blank cartridge for a QF 3-Pdr Hotchkiss used as a saluting gun. The picture shows two such guns used for this purpose in the Falklands. These guns date to 1896. Looking at the cartridge in the pic, it appears to be about 8 inches long!

Saluting Gun.jpg

Edited by Spaceman
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Yes, it's 7 11/16 in / 196 mm in length. I hadn't considered that it had been cut down, it just looked too neat as it was :-)

peregrinvs (above) suggested that "it looks like the original press in primer has been converted to screw in to make it more easy to reload."

I have a lot to learn about such off-beat conversions!

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I didn't find the dimensioned drawing Spaceman posted - it looks right, as if it was parted-off below the shoulder, where the O/D is given 2.142". If you allow 40 thou or a millimetre or so for the wall thickness, you arrive at Lanchester's given I/D. Presumably the central flash tube was added with the 'aftermarket' primer.

Edited by MikB
(typo)
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