Help translating Unit Markings on 1888 Commission GEW 91 Short rifle

[collector 10]

GEW 91 short rifle, John Walter's " The German Rifle" says  issued to to foot artillerymen & few specialized detachments such as airship units prior to adoption of Kar 98AZ, then stored for for Reserve & Landwehr foot artillery.

Really love to know what unit markings are! Thanks

[AndyBsk]

As mentioned its a Gew91 rifle, in reality a carbine even marked as Gewehr. The unit should be 10.Foot Artillery Regiment , Ersatz Batallion, 2.Company weapon nr.238. Should be located at Strassburg.

Edited 7 November , 2023 by AndyBsk

[collector 10]

Thanks for info- what is an "ersatz battilion"?  like a non active reserve unit?

[AndyBsk]

I assume Ersatz Batallion is a reserve unit, which realise training of soldiers before sending them to front or combat area.

[GothaGVb]

Very cool rifle!

Do you have a picture of the whole thing? 

I don't think I've ever heard of a Gewehr 91 before.

[Sir Mortimer]

6 hours ago, collector 10 said:

Thanks for info- what is an "ersatz battilion"?  like a non active reserve unit?

You had 5 different unit types in the german army:

1) active, serving units. Every man fit from 20 years of age had to serve 2 years there, then they would be transferred to the

2) active Reserve for 3 more years until 25 years of age: Soldiers that completed their mandatory 2-year service in the standing army returned to civilian life. Reservists were the first ones to be called back into service in wartime in special regiments aka "Reserve-Regiments". They would be used next to the active units on the frontlines.

1) and 2) were the "Standing Army" of the German Empire.

3) Landwehr: After passing 25 years of age, you automatically moved into the category of Landwehr. Those included men from 25-38 years, with men being 25-32 years being "Landwehr I" and from 32-38 "Landwehr II". These units would be used for mostly rearward security behind the front, guarding prisoners of war, etc.

4) Landsturm: This group was split in two groups: the "1st charge" (men from 17-20 years) and the "2nd charge" (men from 38-50 years). On most period photographs you'll find men from the 2nd charge. They were also used for rear duties in WW1. The young men from "charge 1" were often directly drafted to 

5) Ersatz units: Every active regiment from the standing army (see 1)) had to form an Ersatz battalion in their home garrison during wartime, consisting of 4 companies. They trained the new, young draftees and sent them directly to the active regiment (or another unit if necessary) after training was finished.

The whole topic of 3) and 4) is often intertwined, but this is the explanation to keep it simple and understandable.

4 hours ago, GothaGVb said:

Very cool rifle!

Do you have a picture of the whole thing? 

I don't think I've ever heard of a Gewehr 91 before.

A "Gewehr 91" is 1:1 a Carbine 88, the only difference is an additional stacking hook (this was made famous by the later introduced Kar98 that used this part, too).

The regular cavalry used the carbine 88. If they didn't need the rifle, they had a rifle case mounted on a horse where they could leave it.

The Foot Artillery wasn't mounted on horses, so they couldn't leave their rifle in a case while working on the artillery piece. In that case it was better to build rifle pyramids to prevent them from getting dirty. That's why the stacking hook was added in 1891. The nomenclature "Gewehr 91" (rifle) despite it being a "Karabiner 88" (carbine) was taken over from the previous rifles the foot artillery used due to the possibility to stack them together. (see Storz, Dieter: Schußwaffen 88 und 91, p.84-85)

Karabiner 88

Gewehr 91

Edited 8 November , 2023 by Sir Mortimer

[4thGordons]

1 hour ago, Sir Mortimer said:

You had 5 different unit types in the german army:

1) active, serving units. Every man fit from 20 years of age had to serve 2 years there, then they would be transferred to the

2) active Reserve for 3 more years until 25 years of age: Soldiers that completed their mandatory 2-year service in the standing army returned to civilian life. Reservists were the first ones to be called back into service in wartime in special regiments aka "Reserve-Regiments". They would be used next to the active units on the frontlines.

1) and 2) were the "Standing Army" of the German Empire.

3) Landwehr: After passing 25 years of age, you automatically moved into the category of Landwehr. Those included men from 25-38 years, with men being 25-32 years being "Landwehr I" and from 32-38 "Landwehr II". These units would be used for mostly rearward security behind the front, guarding prisoners of war, etc.

4) Landsturm: This group was split in two groups: the "1st charge" (men from 17-20 years) and the "2nd charge" (men from 38-50 years). On most period photographs you'll find men from the 2nd charge. They were also used for rear duties in WW1. The young men from "charge 1" were often directly drafted to 

5) Ersatz units: Every active regiment from the standing army (see 1)) had to form an Ersatz battalion in their home garrison during wartime, consisting of 4 companies. They trained the new, young draftees and sent them directly to the active regiment (or another unit if necessary) after training was finished.

The whole topic of 3) and 4) is often intertwined, but this is the explanation to keep it simple and understandable.

 

Thank you for this - this is the clearest explanation I have seen!

Chris

[GothaGVb]

2 hours ago, Sir Mortimer said:

You had 5 different unit types in the german army:

1) active, serving units. Every man fit from 20 years of age had to serve 2 years there, then they would be transferred to the

2) active Reserve for 3 more years until 25 years of age: Soldiers that completed their mandatory 2-year service in the standing army returned to civilian life. Reservists were the first ones to be called back into service in wartime in special regiments aka "Reserve-Regiments". They would be used next to the active units on the frontlines.

1) and 2) were the "Standing Army" of the German Empire.

3) Landwehr: After passing 25 years of age, you automatically moved into the category of Landwehr. Those included men from 25-38 years, with men being 25-32 years being "Landwehr I" and from 32-38 "Landwehr II". These units would be used for mostly rearward security behind the front, guarding prisoners of war, etc.

4) Landsturm: This group was split in two groups: the "1st charge" (men from 17-20 years) and the "2nd charge" (men from 38-50 years). On most period photographs you'll find men from the 2nd charge. They were also used for rear duties in WW1. The young men from "charge 1" were often directly drafted to 

5) Ersatz units: Every active regiment from the standing army (see 1)) had to form an Ersatz battalion in their home garrison during wartime, consisting of 4 companies. They trained the new, young draftees and sent them directly to the active regiment (or another unit if necessary) after training was finished.

The whole topic of 3) and 4) is often intertwined, but this is the explanation to keep it simple and understandable.

A "Gewehr 91" is 1:1 a Carbine 88, the only difference is an additional stacking hook (this was made famous by the later introduced Kar98 that used this part, too).

The regular cavalry used the carbine 88. If they didn't need the rifle, they had a rifle case mounted on a horse where they could leave it.

The Foot Artillery wasn't mounted on horses, so they couldn't leave their rifle in a case while working on the artillery piece. In that case it was better to build rifle pyramids to prevent them from getting dirty. That's why the stacking hook was added in 1891. The nomenclature "Gewehr 91" (rifle) despite it being a "Karabiner 88" (carbine) was taken over from the previous rifles the foot artillery used due to the possibility to stack them together. (see Storz, Dieter: Schußwaffen 88 und 91, p.84-85)

Karabiner 88

Gewehr 91

Excellent info and pictures, thanks! 

[geronimo242]

Greetings. I bought a german gewehr 88 rifle that was made in 1891. It was given to turkey at some point and updated to use stripper clips and spitzer ammunition. The markings interest me greatly. Anyone have an idea? 

[AndyBsk]

56 .Reserve Inf.Regiment, 6.Company, weapon nr.47. The 88/05 should be done by germans normally, is there a turkish marked bolt?

https://wiki.genealogy.net/RIR_56

Edited 31 January by AndyBsk

[trajan]

Official records show perhaps as many as 50,000 Gew 88/05 were sent to Turkey by the summer of 1916, with another 170,130 ‘ready for shipping’ by November 1917, and so around 220,000 in all during a roughly 17 month period.