German Regimental Marking ID?

[GothaGVb]

Hi All!

First post here and I'm excited to learn. I've always been interested in WWI technology and I finally was able to pick up a Gewehr 98 recently! 

I was cleaning it up and found strange markings on the take down disk. I read quite a bit about these markings on this forum, but was unable to identify them. It also strikes me as strange that the finger groves and takedown disk infer the stock was from a 1917+ rifle originally, by which time I had thought they stopped marking them like this. (Yes, the rifle is a mix and match of parts with almost nothing matching, still, I'd like to know what unit this was).

The backslash is another thing that's really been throwing me for a loop. 

 

I'd appreciate the opinions of the experts on the matter! 

 

Edited 5 November , 2023 by GothaGVb

[Rafal1971]

A bit too strong cleaning agents.
It's good that the regiment's marking has survived !
Germany/Waimar Republic period
6th company / 15th Infantry Regiment / weapon number is barely visible but probably 38

[Rafal1971]

Wiki

15. Infanterie-Regiment (Reichswehr) – Wikipedia

[GothaGVb]

4 hours ago, Rafal1971 said:

A bit too strong cleaning agents.
It's good that the regiment's marking has survived !
Germany/Waimar Republic period
6th company / 15th Infantry Regiment / weapon number is barely visible but probably 38

Very interesting! Is the number before the backslash the reason you say it's the 6th company? It honestly looked more like an 8 or a B to me! I'll go with your judgement though. 

It's also interesting because on the page you linked, it said the Infantrymen were equipped with K98a Carbines. 

Since this stock is on Gewehr 98 internals, would that infer the rifle to have originally been a Gew98 or can a K98a stock fit that hardware? 

 

Also this is a rifle that was recovered from Turkey  and has absolutely been Turked with. Any idea how a Weimar rifle stock would have ended up there? I thought Germany only shipped them a few Post WW1 shipments to get rid of some of the non Versailles approved rifles. I was under the impression the 1921 stamped or approved rifles were retained? 

Mysteries, mysteries.  

[Rafal1971]

Hallo

 

I collect only bayonets. After the First World War, German bayonets were used in very large numbers by the Turkish army. Rifles are not my area of interest

Photo markings Waimar period from luger

 

Best 

[AndyBsk]

Rafal is corect, this is a Reichswehr marking post 1920, 6.Company of Infanterie Regiment nr.15 weapon nr23 or 28, turked could be possible only when the rifle were sold post 1945 to Turkey. Similar conversion of Gew98 to K98k  of older WW1/1920 were still used by Volksturm in late of war.

[GothaGVb]

Thanks guys, very informative!

Would anyone happen to have any info about the sale of German rifles to Turkey after WWII? Like how and why it happened?

 

Also, Andy you think this rifle was turned in a Kar 98k from an existing rifle in German stocks and handed out to the Volkstrum? Interesting. 

[AndyBsk]

No as i dont known how it looks the rifle, anyway the Reichswehr unit could be added only post 1920, which means normally a live unit weapon should have a additional 1920 stamp on receiver as proper state owner weapon. In late 192x the long rifles were reworked to Gew98b configuration with new tangencial sights , Lange sight were removed, lately in early 30ies many of them were shortened, rebarelled to Kar98k configuration. Teoretically it could be sold to Turkey even in late 30ies when enough weapons were made for Wehrmacht, but its possible it went to Turkey postwar, as Mauser 98 system weapons were still hold in depots for reserve units. Problem is too Your rifle could have a mixed buttstock or different stage of refurbishment done in Turkey.

Edited 6 November , 2023 by AndyBsk

[GothaGVb]

I know for certain the buttstock and the rest of the rifle do not go together and were almost certainly mated together in Turkey as the whole piece has the color scheme of a Turk Mauser and has been that way for a long time. 

I'm not really interested in the metal parts, only the buttstock, as it is the only piece of the rifle it came from that I have. The unit marking states the stock was used on a Weimar rifle by Infantry Regiment 15 Company 6. That much we seem to know for certain. 

The only really puzzling thing is that the Wiki page above on the 15th Infantry Regiment said they were issued with Kar 98a Carbines. This weapon seemingly was a normal Gewehr 98 as the buttstock does not have an indent for the side mounted sling and no indent for the turned down bolt handle. It DOES have a takedown disk and hand rail groves. 

Which is what makes me wonder if this was ever really a Carbine. Would that infantry regiment ever have been issued a normal Gewehr 98? Or could this have been classified as a Carbine somehow even without the indent for the side sling? The way the stock is now, it easily could have been a Gew 98m, which were made by the Weimar Republic, but that still doesn't address how the Wiki said the 15th was issued Kar 98a's. 

Edited 6 November , 2023 by GothaGVb

[AndyBsk]

Carbine buttstock should be clear recognisable, with lenght and position of rings. Any pictures avialable. Similar opinions that a unit didnt use a long rifles is not real, it was changed in time, the Gew98 were too long so the arms were shortened to Kar98k lenght, but this was done post 1925, in that period was both Kar98AZ and Gew98 used in armament of Reichswehr. On buttstock there should be proofs, same as acceptance, even Your is evidently laquered? with crown Letter proofs under unit disc. 

[AndyBsk]

Thanks for pictures , i assume the buttstock is a hunter shortage, it should be a WW1 piece as A marked probably, which means a different wood as normal used, so its most real 1916-18 period, all the marking was removed by sanding of the butt or overlaquered, the Z in circle on bolt handle speaks for polish bolt probably. I would certainly remove the paint from buttstock same as the black paint from metall, the metall looks like shortage of Gew98, so i assume the buttstock is Gew98 from WW1 possible used later in Weimar as Gew98b.

Edited 7 November , 2023 by AndyBsk

[GothaGVb]

Thanks!

I guess we've sorted out a decent amount of the rifle's past!

Action still works well and rifling is strong, so I'll likely use it as a shooter. I do plan on refinishing and rebluing it as you recommended. It should look much better.