John Lionel Baker (Pilot in Training) - buried Lincoln Newport Cemetery

[temptage]

Have just seen a photo of this lads grave in Lincoln Newport Cemetery.

Clearly states he was "killed whilst flying" on 27th August 1917, and yet he has no record on the CWGC database.

I have found a record of the crash that he died in, seen below.

August

27. A2147. DH4 of 61 TSqn Sth Carlton. Wings came off at 1,500‘, crashed at Burton. 2k

He was in training with 61 Training Squadron South Carlton, a few miles north of Lincoln. The other person in the plane appears to be Captain Charles Butler, RFC, who has an entry in the CWGC, and is buried in Farsley in Yorkshire. He is the only other flyer on the CWGC to have died that day in the UK.

 

The grave is in a row of other WW1 casualties of which his date of death fits in nicely with the others buried around him.

The plot number is C. D. Red. 8

 

If anyone else can find any more on either him, or on the crash, I would appreciate any help with this one.

 

Tony

[BarbaraG]

A little background information...

Family were from Gloucestershire 1901 in Almondsbury and John is one year old.

Baptism 08 April 1900. 

[BarbaraG]

Brief announcement in the Bristol Times and Mirror 30 August 1917

Reference from www.rcawsey.co.uk

http://www.rcawsey.co.uk/Acc1917a.htm

Details subject to copyright but maybe contact ETON COLLEGE

https://catalogue.etoncollege.com/object-pa-a-14-81-2012

https://catalogue.etoncollege.com/terms-and-conditions

 

 

Edited 4 November , 2023 by BarbaraG

[Chesterboy]

He appears on the CWGC graves registration record of those around him 

Eaton O.T.C att and has been classed as ‘Not A War Grave’ 

[PRC]

Like many regional daily newspapers, the Eastern Evening News, (printed in Norwich), often included reports of aircrashes in the UK as column fillers even though there was no stated local connection.

The edition dated Wednesday, August 29th 1917 included this:-

AVIATOR AND CADET KILLED.

An aeroplane with two occupants, and flying at a height of 1500 feet over Lincolnshire on Monday night, suddenly got out of control and fell in a field about two miles from a town. Both aviators were killed. The pilot was Captain Butler, a well known member of the Royal Flying Corps, who was just home after twelve months flying in France. His home was at Leeds. The other aviator was a cadet.

The Casualty Card shows:-

Image courtesy https://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/butler-c.-charles

There is nothing to suggest Cadet Baker was a Pilot under training, or that at the time of the accident he was a member of the armed forces. I suspect the O.T.C does not come under the Great War categories of civilian organisations that qualified for consideration as amongst the war dead.

Cheers,
Peter

[Chesterboy]

I see from the RAF vault that Cadet Baker has his own casualty card 

sorry I don’t know how to add it here

[George Rayner]

Having a quick dip into Fold 3

John Lionel Baker

UK, Airmen Died in the Great War, 1914-1918

This appears to be a listing with Captain Butler.

George

 

 

[PRC]

4 hours ago, Chesterboy said:

I see from the RAF vault that Cadet Baker has his own casualty card 

sorry I don’t know how to add it here

Looks like there are at least three sets of handwriting at work on the card with the addition of "No.61 T.S." (after Eton College O.T.C), and "Test Flight" being in one of them, along with a couple of other notes. Probably intended to add clarity, it has instead given the impression that he was on the strength of that Training Squadron. Note he is recorded as a "Pass" - i.e. Passenger.

Image courtesy https://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/baker-j.l

The obituary attached to the picture of him from the Eton Archives can be found on page 276 of the edition of The Eton College Chronicle dated September 27, 1917. https://archives.etoncollege.com/PDFViewer/web/viewer.html?file=%2fFilename.ashx%3ftableName%3dta_chronicles%26columnName%3dfilename%26recordId%3d756

Cheers,
Peter

[temptage]

Interesting wording in that.

"He was flying with an experienced Pilot"

Was he flying with an experienced Pilot who was in control of the plane, or was HE flying the plane and there was an experienced Pilot in the plane with him?