Australian Scabbard question

[Winterhawk]

Hi, Some advice: I have a very nice Australian1916 Lithgow produced 1907 bayonet. It is mounted in a WWII 1943 Orange arsenal scabbard. I would like to obtain a suitable WWI Australian produced scabbard for it. What identifies a WWI Australian scabbard? I assume a "pear" shaped frog stud, A in a star on the chape or locket, Military district marks? What else? From an historic standpoint it appears the scabbard has been with this blade since WWII should I change it or leave well enough alone?

[Fromelles]

Yes, a Lithgow scabbard should be stamped with the A within the Federation Star on the metalwork, and ‘LITHGOW’ with the full year stamped into the leather (brown leather for WW1 period). There may also be a MD (Military District) number (1-6) and rifle serial number stamped in the mouthpiece, which would also be stamped on the bayonet.

To the question of weather to leave the latter scabbard with the bayonet, I wouldn’t unless you knew it had a particular history, an old scabbard and an older bayonet probably look like they’ve been together for a long time, but could just as likely of been put together a week before you picked it up. Really it’s up to you.

Dan

[Chasemuseum]

I would have no hesitation with putting a WW1 scabbard on your bayonet.

In all probability, it came out of Australian Government War Reserves, where it had been in storage since WW2 in a crate, with the scabbards in a separate crate. When sold as surplus, the bayonets and scabbards were probably separate lots at the auction and put together by the purchaser, the disposal stores consortium. 

[t.ryan]

Winterhawk,

Your membership does not state where you are from but if in Australia, then you could look up "Crimson Mist Military Antiques". These early Lithgow scabbards are a bit hard to come by but he had a couple at a recent gun show. His site is still showing a couple for sale (not cheap) but available.

Just to add to above, the pear shape frog studs were replaced with the small round frog studs in the early 1920's. 

Photo of my small round stud, double stitched, Lithgow 1920 stamped scabbard which houses a 4/1920 Lithgow bayonet; but like mentioned above, even though they are both 1920 stamped, I have no idea if they have always been together.

Cheers,

TR 

 

[Winterhawk]

Thank you for the reply. There is quite a bit of information on the web about British 1907 scabbards but not much on Australian manufactured ones. That answers my question. Yes I think this was one that were shipped to the US as surplus a number of years ago. I assume this as it has "Australia" punched on the grip? I am in Canada but I have been on Crimson mist's web site to see what he has. I will contact him and see what shipping looks like.  There is a British 1907 dated 1918 with  Australian acceptance marks and a WWI Aus. scabbard quite cheap here so I could get a matching scabbard by buying it and switching.

[navydoc16]

On 31/10/2023 at 05:47, Winterhawk said:

Thank you for the reply. There is quite a bit of information on the web about British 1907 scabbards but not much on Australian manufactured ones. That answers my question. Yes I think this was one that were shipped to the US as surplus a number of years ago. I assume this as it has "Australia" punched on the grip? I am in Canada but I have been on Crimson mist's web site to see what he has. I will contact him and see what shipping looks like.  There is a British 1907 dated 1918 with  Australian acceptance marks and a WWI Aus. scabbard quite cheap here so I could get a matching scabbard by buying it and switching.

These Scabbards are not very hard to find in general here in Aus, CM is a known dealer with sometimes dubious claims, has prices to match and often a "story" to go with. If you can find your way to some go the FB forums you can often pick them up for a fraction of the cost from fellow collectors. 

There is also a gentleman from Greece on ebay that goes by RAF or RAV- Movie props, has several tubs full of Lithgow WW1 dated bayonet Scabbards. 

In regards your original question, remember that Australia is a island, when we fought the Japanese we were in serious poo in terms of materiel and re-issued everything from WW1 with or without refurbishment if required. A lot of WW1 bayonets were paired with WW2 scabbards to replace worn out scabbards from the Great War or were simply mixed up when diggers were cleaning. Getting date and maker matching scabbards to bayonets was not a priority. 

Kind regards,

G