How did my grandparents meet?

[SaraF]

Of course, I will never know for sure but with the Forum's help I'm wondering if I can narrow it down ... or make an informed guess! 

My grandfather served with the East Surrey Regt from 1914, initially 4th Btn then transferring to 11th Btn on their formation in November 1914, he stayed on home service before going to France with the 9th Battalion ESR in October 1915.

After time at the Front he transferred back to the UK and joined an officer training battalion based at Pirbright in April 1917. On completion of training he joined the 11th Btn Royal Fusiliers in Sept 1917 went very briefly back to France, returned to UK and moved to 5th/6th btn Royal Fusiliers before heading to Egypt in June 1918.

He married my grandmother in Ealing in February 1918. She was born and lived on the Isle of Wight and as far as I can establish had no links to West London, but her address on the marriage certificate is in Ealing. 

So, how did they meet? My grandmother was a milliner - so she may have moved to London for work but for some reason this explanation doesn't sit well with me. 

Is there a chance that my grandfather was posted to the Isle of Wight - possibly to Albany/Parkhurst Barracks - at any point when he wasn't on active service? I've checked through the ESR and RF resources on line but can't see anything that links them to the IoW.

My grandfather came from Norfolk but somehow their paths crossed frequently enough for them to get married. 

Any thoughts? 

[IPT]

The best chance may be if you give us Marion's Ealing address?

[JMB1943]

Sara,

Your grandfather seems to have done a number of England to France and back again trips; is it possible that one/ some journey(s) were due to wounding at the front?

The detectives on here are wizards, but I suspect that they probably need more information than you have provided,

---granddad's full name

---service number

---is the info you have on him from his intact army record?

Regards,

JMB

 

[alf mcm]

Sara,

  Perhaps your grandmother worked as a VAD. This could have taken her away from the Isle of Wight. She can be searched for on Findmypast https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/british-army-british-red-cross-society-volunteers-1914-1918?firstname=marion&firstname_variants=true

or the Red Cross website;- https://vad.redcross.org.uk/search?searchTerm=EALING&filter=Name

Findmypast is easier to search.

  Marion could also have been a member of W.A.A.C./Q.M.A.A.C. {Women's Army Auxiliary Corps, which became Queen Mary's Army Auxiliary Corps}, in which case she could have served in England or France.

Regards,

Alf McM

Edited 25 October , 2023 by alf mcm
WAAC/QMAAC added

[SaraF]

9 hours ago, IPT said:

The best chance may be if you give us Marion's Ealing address?

Her address was 16 Princes Gardens, Ealing. I must have got this from the marriage certificate as I also have the names of the witnesses, but I can’t find where I’ve filed the certificate for love nor money!

[SaraF]

8 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

Sara,

Your grandfather seems to have done a number of England to France and back again trips; is it possible that one/ some journey(s) were due to wounding at the front?

The detectives on here are wizards, but I suspect that they probably need more information than you have provided,

---granddad's full name

---service number

---is the info you have on him from his intact army record?

Regards,

JMB

 

Hi JMB,

My grandfather, Ernest Flatt, was wounded on 16/8/16 at Trones Wood / Guillemont but was treated and re-habbed at Boulogne. 

The wizards on here have already been amazing in unravelling the parts of my GFs service record that made no sense to me - specifically his officer records - so I have a great picture of his active service whereabouts. I think the key to unlocking this particular secret maybe in his home service / training whereabouts! 

My only other thread on here has all his service details etc ... 

KR, Sara

[kenf48]

To avoid duplication of effort

 

[SaraF]

2 hours ago, alf mcm said:

Sara,

  Perhaps your grandmother worked as a VAD. This could have taken her away from the Isle of Wight. She can be searched for on Findmypast https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/british-army-british-red-cross-society-volunteers-1914-1918?firstname=marion&firstname_variants=true

or the Red Cross website;- https://vad.redcross.org.uk/search?searchTerm=EALING&filter=Name

Findmypast is easier to search.

  Marion could also have been a member of W.A.A.C./Q.M.A.A.C. {Women's Army Auxiliary Corps, which became Queen Mary's Army Auxiliary Corps}, in which case she could have served in England or France.

Regards,

Alf McM

Morning, Alf

This is something I hadn't thought of exploring, mainly because I can't imagine my Nanna Flatt as a nurse! But it's definitely worth a look.

As mentioned in another reply, my GF was wounded when in the ESR but was treated in France. He did seem to have some further medical episode at the point he returned to France as an officer with the RF and was returned immediately to the UK. so there is a chance that if she was nursing in the W London area their paths could have crossed then.

Many thanks

Sara

[SaraF]

Many thanks, KenF48 

[kenf48]

22 minutes ago, SaraF said:

Many thanks, KenF48 

You are welcome unfortunately the original images of his record you posted on that thread were lost during the upgrade our IT Wizard is working through them to reinstate them but as you can imagine it's a long job. Feel free to post them again should you wish.

As for Ealing this site https://www.aroundealing.com/history/first-world-war-the-local-war-years-1914-18/ indicates not only were there hospitals but also a hostel for women munitions workers established in the district. I guess the address and occupation of your grandmother will be on the marriage certificate which you can't find at the moment. 

[IPT]

14 hours ago, SaraF said:

Her address was 16 Princes Gardens, Ealing. I must have got this from the marriage certificate as I also have the names of the witnesses, but I can’t find where I’ve filed the certificate for love nor money!

The address appears to have belonged to Herbert Budden Gibbs and his wife Mabel Edith (nee Secker). They had married in East Dereham in 1913 and were at 16 Princes Gardens by 1915 and until at least the 1930s.  (Is Mabel some sort of cousin to Ernest Flatt?)

Herbert served with the Bedfordshire Regiment and the Labour Corps.

The witnesses may be a clue.

[SaraF]

9 hours ago, IPT said:

The address appears to have belonged to Herbert Budden Gibbs and his wife Mabel Edith (nee Secker). They had married in East Dereham in 1913 and were at 16 Princes Gardens by 1915 and until at least the 1930s.  (Is Mabel some sort of cousin to Ernest Flatt?)

Herbert served with the Bedfordshire Regiment and the Labour Corps.

The witnesses may be a clue.

Good morning IPT,

What a wonderful reply to wake up to!

Ernest's mother's maiden name was Secker so there is definitely a family connection to be followed up, and East Dereham was his home town! 

Also, Ernest originally enlisted with the Bedfordshire Regt but then immediately transferred to the East Surreys - so maybe he and Herbert travelled together to enlist. Herbert's name isn't one I've come across before but I shall now backtrack and look at his East Dereham roots.

It also means that I may now be able to put a name to the other soldier in the attached photo. Ernest is on the right (as you look at the image) maybe it's Herbert on the left?

Your information gives weight to my gut feeling that Marion was in Ealing because she had already met and fallen in love with Ernest elsewhere - making use of family connections to be near him during his time at the Officer Training battalion and presumably so the marriage banns could be served?

Can I ask how you could find out who lived at the property? 

Thank you so much for the information - I now have a whole new area of rabbit holes to disappear down!

The witnesses at the wedding were Reginald Kerrison who was also a Dereham boy and served in the Norfolk Yeomanry, he was wounded early in the conflict and spent the rest of the war on home service. His Army record was less than unblemished with numerous charges for minor trangressions! The other witness was Winifred Miller, originally from Peterborough. The only potential link here is that she appears to have been in the millinery trade, as was Marion. 

Sara 

Edited 26 October , 2023 by SaraF
Photo added