Royal Irish Rifles, Private...?

[Trav]

A recent auction purchase. Bought by me as I was curious to have a photo of the uniform my Grandfather would have been wearing when he was in 2nd Bn,  R.I.Rifles. Note the blackened buttons and cap badge.

The card is marked Winchester and I know the 2nd Battalion were based about 25 miles away in Tidworth from 09/1912 - 08/1914. So I'd guess this chap was also 2nd Bn. R.I.R and the photo taken between those dates.

It would be nice to identify him fully, but I fear that's not going to be possible without more information, but still a nice find and I wanted to share with you chaps 🙂

Edited 14 October , 2023 by Trav
added a tag

[max7474]

The 1st Battalion adopted the white metal cap badge from 1911 but it does seem that the 2nd retained the black ones after that.

[Trav]

Is that a lanyard over his left shoulder or just piping on the uniform?

[Michelle Young]

It appears to be a lanyard. He also has a cloth badge sewn on his left upper arm.

[Trav]

2 minutes ago, Michelle Young said:

It appears to be a lanyard. He also has a cloth badge sewn on his left upper arm.

Yes I saw that, I imagine an arced "RIR" identifier perhaps? 🤔

[mancpal]

It may be a mark on the photo but has he got a trade badge on his lower left sleeve?

Simon

[mancpal]

This may be a coincidence but could the 11166 written on the reverse be the service number of James Carville who served with the Royal Irish Rifles after the Royal Inniskillings?

It seems to me a big coincidence that a random number hand written throws up a ‘match’ in the appropriate regiment. 
His mic shows 4/11166

Simon

[FROGSMILE]

His cap badge is 18th Battalion London Regiment (London Irish Rifles), rather than Royal Irish Rifles.

 

 

 

 

Edited 14 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[max7474]

London Irish would be a better match for the cloth arm title which would not be right for a pre war photo.

[Trav]

21 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

His cap badge is 18th Battalion London Regiment (London Irish Rifles), rather than Royal Irish Rifles.

 

 

 

 

Thanks Frogsmile, I wasn't 100% convinced, but it seemed close enough, and I willed it to be RIR 🙂

[FROGSMILE]

1 minute ago, Trav said:

Thanks Frogsmile, I wasn't 100% convinced, but it seemed close enough, and I willed it to be RIR 🙂

It’s a fine portrait photo of a very smartly attired London Irishman.  Thank you for sharing it.

There were a variety of cloth shoulder titles and I’ve shown some of those used.  They were especially common for 2nd Line London Regiment units in the latter part of the war.

Edited 14 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[mancpal]

I’m not great on cap badges but had a quick look and agree with London Irish. 
It seems that 11166 is a coincidence then.

Simon

[FROGSMILE]

52 minutes ago, mancpal said:

It may be a mark on the photo but has he got a trade badge on his lower left sleeve?

Simon

It’s a flaw on the photo I think Simon.

[mancpal]

Thought it more likely but worth asking anyway,

Simon

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, max7474 said:

The 1st Battalion adopted the white metal cap badge from 1911 but it does seem that the 2nd retained the black ones after that.

No mammaries Max!  It’s a Harp of Eireann, rather than the Maid’s Harp favoured by RIR, plus there’s plainly no title scroll.

Edited 14 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Trav]

45 minutes ago, mancpal said:

This may be a coincidence but could the 11166 written on the reverse be the service number of James Carville who served with the Royal Irish Rifles after the Royal Inniskillings?

It seems to me a big coincidence that a random number hand written throws up a ‘match’ in the appropriate regiment. 
His mic shows 4/11166

Simon

That would have been great, to put a name to the photo... alas 🙁

[Michelle Young]

The pencilled numbers on postcards usually turn out to be the negative or order numbers. 

[mancpal]

Still a big coincidence that it came up with a number that is related to the OPs RIR assumption though I happily bow to greater knowledge.

Simon

[FROGSMILE]

14 minutes ago, mancpal said:

Still a big coincidence that it came up with a number that is related to the OPs RIR assumption though I happily bow to greater knowledge.

Simon

It would be utterly pointless annotating a regimental serial number without a name accompanying it Simon.  It will be the photographer’s reference number.

Edited 14 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[mancpal]

Agreed, a coincidence all the same.

Simon

[FROGSMILE]

5 minutes ago, mancpal said:

Agreed, a coincidence all the same.

Simon

I understand why you say that Simon, but on thoughtful reflection I think that the only true ‘coincidence’ that would be worth remarking would be if the cap badge had been Royal Irish Rifles, albeit without a name it would still have been irrelevant.  However, even debating this suggests that we should all have better things to do on this fine Saturday afternoon! 

Edited 14 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Andrew Upton]

3 hours ago, Trav said:

...The card is marked Winchester and I know the 2nd Battalion were based about 25 miles away in Tidworth from 09/1912 - 08/1914. So I'd guess this chap was also 2nd Bn. R.I.R and the photo taken between those dates...

 

He's wearing the belt off the 1914 Pattern Infantry Equipment, and this didn't exist prior to August/September 1914 at the very earliest, so the photo be after this.

[Trav]

24 minutes ago, Andrew Upton said:

He's wearing the belt off the 1914 Pattern Infantry Equipment, and this didn't exist prior to August/September 1914 at the very earliest, so the photo be after this.

Thanks... I've often wondered about the difference in those belts, leather v webbing. Now I know 🙂

[max7474]

5 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

No mammaries Max!  It’s a Harp of Eireann, rather than the Maid’s Harp favoured by RIR, plus there’s plainly no title scroll.

Good point - I was too much of a gentleman to stare.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, max7474 said:

Good point - I was too much of a gentleman to stare.

Can’t miss a buxom Colleen like that Max!