Help to Identify a tag attached to three relic items recovered at Fromelles.

[woronora]

Hi

I acquired a collection of three relic items belonging to Captain Harold Taylor, 54th Bn. AIF who was mortally wounded at Fromelles on 19 July 1916.  These include an unofficial ID disc engraved on a one florin coin, a fob watch and a cuff link. Attached to the relics is a tag,  presumably from the authority who collected the items. The tag is engraved 1559  3 on one side and IGC, (Imperial Graces Commission?) on the other. as shown in the attached photos. I would be very grateful to anyone who could identify the tag  and let me know its origin.

Cheers John

John

[Matlock1418]

15 hours ago, woronora said:

Captain Harold Taylor, 54th Bn. AIF

What do you know about Captain TAYLOR?

What is known about his pre-service life?  Possibly his civilian occupation?

I ask because for me the 'tag' has something of the appearance of a worker's identity/pay token - e.g. for a mine worker, railway worker etc.  Perhaps a reminder of home?

Of the IGC I wonder if the G stands for Goulburn [from CWGC his home town in New South Wales - which Wiki advises was a railway town].

???

M

[woronora]

Hi

 

Thank you for your suggestions. Harold was a clerk with a manufacturing company in Newcastle when he enlisted. I purchased the relics from a seller in the UK a number of years ago who stated that the metal disc was possibly from the Imperial War Museum. I have attached his biography which I have written for your interest.

Cheers

John

Captain Harold Taylor.pdf

[Matlock1418]

17 minutes ago, woronora said:

I have attached his biography which I have written for your interest.

Nice job.  Thank you.

M

[Hero]

Beautiful item! Fromelles is my main focus with collecting.

[jay dubaya]

I'm sure you're aware his personnel file is quite well furnished with information relating to his effects, all of which were returned to his father. These effects were returned via official AIF channels from three different locations, a tin trunk, a valise and a sealed envelope (contents of each detailed). Each of these appears to have an official reference number none of which accord with what appears on the numbered disc. The  IWG (IWGC) did not exist at the time of Taylor's death and it's odd that you hadn't mentioned the monogram in the centre of this disc which appears to be T & H. I don't think this relates to anything military and could relate to a number of suggestions such as a bank or hotel. I may agree with your assertion that the artefacts were recovered from the location where he recieved his wounds, a watch is not listed amongst what may appear to be effects taken from his remains prior to burial (sealed envelope). A likely suggestion would be a comerade retrieved the artefacts and returned them (or not) via unoffical channels, although it appears only the florin links these artefacts to Taylor.

[woronora]

Hi

 

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter. I agree with you that the IWGC didn't exist at the time he was killed. The person I bought them from in the UK stated that they had been recovered when the area where they were found was being prepared for a car parking lot which would have occurred in recent times.

Cheers

 

John

 

[PhilB]

I made the motif to be C&TH or C&HT.

It would be unusual, though possible, for a 1916 florin to get to Fromelles before July that year?

Edited 14 April by PhilB

[woronora]

Thank you for your thoughts. Sadly the circumstances surrounding the time and initial collection of these items seems to be lost in the mist of time. Nevertheless, the speculation is interesting and informative.

Cheers

John

[ZIL]

 it might be worthwhile…if you know a good horologist/watchrepairer to have the back of the watch removed..it may be engraved on the inside giving more detail.I have two which were in a similar condition which both revealed details plus both are now working…yes with a lot of work.Regards Zil

[TEW]

There does seem to be some conflicting statements regarding his death.

He died in the trench.

He died leading the charge.

He died in No Man's Land.

He died on the way to a dressing station.

He died in a dressing station.

His left arm and right hand generally seem to be his injuries but sometimes his back and a leg are also involved.

In the list of effects it does mention a Watch (page 5) and a Disc (page 19). It seems quite plausible to have more than one watch and disc. Would they described a fob-watch rather than just say watch? Multiple discs for an officer seems likely, unofficial and official ones perhaps?

Taking into consideration what he would need to have on him for an attack a watch and a disc seem like priority items. All the other effects sent to his Father would be stored away at his HQ no doubt.

Given his injuries there are some rather macabre scenarios as to how these items ended up on the battlefield.

I'd be wanting to determine where Taylor was when he was killed, assuming it was in the trench and is that close to the location of the find IE. the car park.

TEW

 

[jay dubaya]

There was an RAP at Two Tree Farm (which has seen extensive renovations and groundwork since the 1960s) around 300m from Rue-Du-Bois Cemetery and no doubt where he was taken via VC Sap or Impertinece Sap. The contents of the sealed envelope are all pocket sized objects (2 noted as being damaged) and would appear useful to an officer in a front line position and are separated from effects stored in depots or behind the lines. I had noticed the discrepancies regarding his whereabouts but the general concenus suggests he was wounded in the trenches prior to going over the top. I would agree with the sobering thoughts of how these artefacts may have been detatched from an owner but I'm perplexed by their level of preservation. Their overall appearance, particularly the leather thonging suggests they haven't been buried for any length of time (if at all) hence my previous suggestion of them been recovered at the time. I did also consider the likelyhood of a 1916 Australian Florin finding its way onto the battlefield of Fromelles and concluded this is certainly possible.