2nd Lt A B Sangster 206 Squadron

[Perth Digger]

2nd Lt Albert Burnett Sangster, born 26 Aug 1899, was Observer with Lt C S Johnson in a DH9 of 206 Squadron on 13 August 1918 when they were shot down. Both were killed. Johnson was buried at point Sh 38.B.23.d.1.9 and reburied in Bailleul CC Ext in 1921. Sangster's remains are now in Sanctuary Wood Cemetery. They were apparently found under a cross and an American headstone with 'Unknown American Soldier' on it in Flanders Field American Cemetery, Waereghan, in December 1930. The body was nude and there were no effects. He was moved to Sanctuary Wood shortly after.

Any ideas how the IWGC might have identified him?

 

Mike

PS: His name was on the AFSM draft list in 1929.

Edited 10 October , 2023 by Perth Digger

[DavidOwen]

Given the 1930 date on the CWGC concentration report then it must have either been eyewitness testimony or potentially dental records?

Where did you get the "nude" bit from Mike?

[Tawhiri]

8 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

Where did you get the "nude" bit from Mike?

It's in the concentration report written at the time.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/477977/albert-burnett-sangster/#&gid=2&pid=1

Edited 10 October , 2023 by Tawhiri

[Perth Digger]

Beaten to it.

 

[DavidOwen]

55 minutes ago, Perth Digger said:

Beaten to it.

 

 

56 minutes ago, Tawhiri said:

It's in the concentration report written at the time.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/477977/albert-burnett-sangster/#&gid=2&pid=1

 

Obvious isn't it - apologies folks!

[Perth Digger]

It always gets confusing, David. 

I see that Johnson 's remains/body were/was found at Sh 38.B.23.d.1.9 and buried at Bailleul CC in 1921. There is no information on where Sangster's remains were found before burial as an Unknown American Soldier. How could this have been known if he had no clothes etc? It was not unknown for the Germans to strip aircrew of their clothes before burial, but this would only have been done if the body was found soon after a crash. 

I must check some more. Where is Waereghem in relation to Bailleul? On what side of the line in August 1918? Bailleul itself was in German hands until 30 August 1918.

It is very late in my part of the world but I'll send some material I've just found in a newspaper report tomorrow.

Mike

[Perth Digger]

The newspaper is the Airdrie and Coatbridge Advertiser, 23 August 1930. It reports that Sangster's family had heard from the IWGC that his remains had been found in the American cemetery by 'the American Graves Society' under an American regulation cross to an unknown American soldier. There is no mention of how the identification was made, but it is clear that Sangster's father had been indefatigable in the 1920s in pressing the Air Ministry and IWGC to continue searching for his son. The CWGC will have their correspondence, but it remains closed to researchers. The American Battle Monuments Commission is probably the modern name for the American Graves Society. I have contacted them to see if they have any useful records.

Pure speculation. Johnson and Sangster were shot down (near Armentieres according to Trevor Henshaw's TSTB II). One or both jumped and were separated. Both were found by German troops, who gave them burials (or possibly just Sangster). Soon after the Americans arrived, found Sangster's body buried with no ID, assumed it was American and buried it in their cemetery as American. 

Mike

[LDT006]

Sangster was buried at Motor Car Corner Cemetery by the Germans. They had his name wrong and believed he was an American.
He was removed from here to the US cemetery at Waregem.

Luc.

doc1822801:

[Perth Digger]

That is terrific, Luc. Many thanks.

I wonder why they thought he was American?

Do you have any information on the second "American" buried there?

Mike

Edited 11 October , 2023 by Perth Digger
Added questions

[LDT006]

Lt C S Johnson was from the US, see ICRC card below. Maybe the Germans might have made a "mess" of their paper work and created confusion?
The occupants of the plane were probably separated because the nude body indicates medical treatment. So it looks like Johnson was dead and buried in a nearby German cemetery, Sangster might have been alive and taken away for treatment (my speculation).

10 hours ago, Perth Digger said:

Do you have any information on the second "American" buried there?

Where did you find this information? I have looked at all the documents and can't find anything.
Are you referring to this:
The American grave registration service was inquiring, in 1922, if this could be the grave of 1Lt. John McGavock Grider. There is no evidence at all for this but this inquiry has led to several publications stating that Grider was possibly buried there. A recent publication simply states that he was buried at Motor car cemetery and is now buried as an unknown at Waregem: fake information.

Hope this helps,
Luc.

Edited 11 October , 2023 by LDT006

[Perth Digger]

I wrote this ten hours ago but it seems not have been sent. Here it is again.

Luc

My information comes from a misreading of the Motor Car Cemetery GRR! I read it as if the Germans buried two bodies in one grave, with the second being an American called "Proving Lankster". 

Your latest ICRC card clarifies things a lot, thanks. The Germans probably got information from Johnson's body that he was American and assumed both were (or muddled the paperwork, as you suggest). The ultimate result was that an American was buried in a British cemetery (and still is) and a Briton was buried in an American cemetery (and subsequently moved). 

I received a reply to my query from the American Battle Monuments Commission. Any possible correspondence would be in their National Archives in Washington DC. 

Where did the Grider information come from, please?

Mike