Imperial German Army Eiserne Kreuz (Iron Cross) Awards List?

[Lee Smart]

I was wondering if there exists a complete listing somewhere of the Eiserne Kreuz (Iron Cross) Awards.

In particular I am trying to find out if an interest subject of mine:       Ersatze-Reservist Wilhelm August Heinrich Klinck a labourer from Keil  (DOB  - 28 APR 1884 in Johnholz near Rieseby in Schleswig-Holstein) of the 31st Reserve-Infantrie Regiment - (killed on 28th June 1916 near Angres in Artois),    might have been awarded one of the apparently 5 and a half million Iron Crosses that were awarded during the War.

How might I find out if he was ever awarded one?

Edited 9 October , 2023 by Lee Smart

[AOK4]

To answer you in short: no, there is no such list.

The fact that most Prussian archival material is lost, doesn't give you any option to do further research either. Unless the man's military pass would pop up (medals are mentioned in it)...

Jan

[Lee Smart]

That’s a shame.

Jan, thank you for your swift response.

[GreyC]

13 hours ago, AOK4 said:

Unless the man's military pass would pop up

Or his Kriegsstammrollenauszug. Some of the veterans ordered one from whereever it was stored at the time to apply for certain jobs or for other matters including social benefits.

GreyC

[AOK4]

28 minutes ago, GreyC said:

Or his Kriegsstammrollenauszug. Some of the veterans ordered one from whereever it was stored at the time to apply for certain jobs or for other matters including social benefits.

GreyC

The man in question died in 1916, so there's very little chance a KriSta-Auszug was ever needed.

Jan

[GreyC]

Well, I wouldn´t say so.

In 1934, for example, Hindenburg issued the Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer. In addition he issued a

Ehrenkreuz für die hinterbliebenen Witwen und Eltern gefallener Kriegsteilnehmer (Honorcross for widows and parents of soldiers KIA).

You had to apply for it and prove you were eligible to get it.

One way of doing it was to send in the Auszug of the Kriegsstammrolle as offical document.

Over 700.000 Honorcrosses for widows and parents were issued.

GreyC

 

 

Edited 10 October , 2023 by GreyC

[AOK4]

10 hours ago, GreyC said:

Well, I wouldn´t say so.

In 1934, for example, Hindenburg issued the Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer. In addition he issued a

Ehrenkreuz für die hinterbliebenen Witwen und Eltern gefallener Kriegsteilnehmer (Honorcross for widows and parents of soldiers KIA).

You had to apply for it and prove you were eligible to get it.

One way of doing it was to send in the Auszug of the Kriegsstammrolle as offical document.

Over 700.000 Honorcrosses for widows and parents were issued.

GreyC

 

 

I hadn't thought of this one. Anyway, these Auszüge would have been gathered by the authorities (and thus lost when those archives were destroyed?).

But you're right that sometimes copies of these Auszüge do pop up when company archive papers come to the market. Some of those Auszüge were also needed for a job or to prove eligibility to certain social privileges or other reasons.

Jan

[GreyC]

2 hours ago, AOK4 said:

Anyway, these Auszüge would have been gathered by the authorities (and thus lost when those archives were destroyed?).

Hi Jan,

not the AUSZÜGE, only the (Kriegs-)Stammrollen themselves. The so called AUSZÜGE were the data for the individual soldiers, applied for by and sent to the person requesting them. So sometimes you find those in the papers of the (former) soldiers on fleamarkets, etc.

GreyC

Edited 11 October , 2023 by GreyC

[AOK4]

13 minutes ago, GreyC said:

Hi Jan,

not the AUSZÜGE, only the (Kriegs-)Stammrollen themselves. The so called AUSZÜGE were the data for the individual soldiers, applied for by and sent to the person requesting them. So sometimes you find those in the papers of the (former) soldiers on fleamarkets, etc.

GreyC

Yes, but what I meant was that they had to hand in the Auszüge when they applied for the medal, so the Auszüge would have been kept by the authorities issuing the medals (and thus be lost when the authorities' archives were destroyed).

I think Auszüge popping up here and there mainly come from company archives, or even from "cleaned up" communal archives etc (Auszüge were often needed there to make up lists of the war casualties to put names on the memorials).

Anyway, the chance that one would ever find the Auszug for this particular man are very slim.

To return to the original question: the Iron Cross 2nd Class (I assume this is the medal the original poster was referring to) was prior to 1918 and the institution of the wound badge also often issued to wounded soldiers. It could possibly be issued to fallen soldiers as well in case the award date was put to be before the death (officially post mortem medals were not possible).

Jan

[GreyC]

9 hours ago, AOK4 said:

Yes, but what I meant was that they had to hand in the Auszüge when they applied for the medal, so the Auszüge would have been kept by the authorities issuing the medals (and thus be lost when the authorities' archives were destroyed).

 

Again: no.

What was handed in more often than not were not the Auszüge as such, but certified copies of them, stamped by the local authorities.

Best,

GreyC

[AOK4]

14 hours ago, GreyC said:

Again: no.

What was handed in more often than not were not the Auszüge as such, but certified copies of them, stamped by the local authorities.

Best,

GreyC

Of course, you're right. There's the "Auszüge" and the extracts/copies made by the ZAK (I believe). These last ones were in A4 size. I've seen (owned) examples of both documents but I was too focused on only the "Auszüge".

[GreyC]

5 hours ago, AOK4 said:

made by the ZAK (I believe).

Exactly.

GreyC

[charlie2]

6 hours ago, AOK4 said:

ZAK

ZAK is the abbreviation for what please.

Charlie

[AOK4]

21 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

ZAK is the abbreviation for what please.

Charlie

Zentralnachweiseamt für Kriegerverluste und Kriegergräber.

[charlie2]

Thank you Jan.

Charlie

[Lee Smart]

Gents,

Once again, many thanks for your advice and knowledge: In return, my summary -

(revised - see below)

 

Edited 17 October , 2023 by Lee Smart

[GreyC]

Hi,

looks nice. However,  the Combat Wound Badge in „Silver“ as you write, (the official name was „matt weiß“ - lacklustre white, by the way, the highest grade lacklustre yellow, not Gold) of 1918 was not awared also „in the event of loss of limb, eyesight, disfigurement or brain damage“. If it was the only sustained wound during the war, it only qualified you to be eligible for the Black version. The statutes of both army and navy Verwundetenabzeichen were quite clear about it and were the same in this respect. See attached original for the navy version. Only in 1936 the statutes were altered and the severity of the wound was also considered. But an „upgrade“ had to be applied for after the change of the rules in 1936. It was not automatically sent to the eligible veteran. Only with the re-issue of the Verwundetenabzeichen in 1939 the severity of the wound was considered from the start in the statutes.

GreyC

 

Edited 17 October , 2023 by GreyC

[Lee Smart]

GreyC, you are a star!

I will adjust, forthwith, accordingly.

Edited 17 October , 2023 by Lee Smart

[GreyC]

Pleasure!

While you are at it: Headline should either read „Die Eisernen Kreuze und die Ehren-Kreuze“ or „Das Eiserne Kreuz und das Ehren-Kreuz in ihren verschiedenen Stufen“ or such like. You got the articles mixed up a bit .

Find attached the original printed version of the deed of foundation / charter of the IC in 1813 from my collection, printed in the SCHLESISCHE PRIVILIGIERTE ZEITUNG  attached to „Aufruf an mein Volk“ in which he addresses his people to call them to arms against Napoleon.

GreyC

 

 

Edited 17 October , 2023 by GreyC

[Lee Smart]

My Bad!

Yup, mein Deutsch ist eine bischen schlecht. Ich habe fünfzehn Jahre in Deutschland gelebt, als Kind und Soldat, aber meine Grammatik ist yetz beschissen!!...I don't use it often enough these days (and the Dutch here all speak such good English).

[GreyC]

I didn´t want to criticise, you are doing fine!

Best,

GreyC