Versailles and other pictures, but where?

[P.Rhodes]

Good afternoon friends, In 1979 my uncle, Harold Shimeld, [seated in my avatar] gave me his Brother's medals [standing] still in the original box and 3 photo's taken around the time of the Treaty of Versailles. There is one that is definitely Versailles and I always thought that the one taken on some steps would have been at Versailles but now I doubt that and wonder if anyone can identify the location. In both photo's Harold has been circled. The 3rd photo appears to be taken in a large city, Paris perhaps. Can anyone place the location please. It would be interesting for me if I knew where they were taken.

Thanks in advance, Peter. 

Edited 30 September , 2023 by P.Rhodes
seated and standing wrong way round

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, P.Rhodes said:

Good afternoon friends, In 1981 my uncle, Harold Shimeld, [standing in my avatar] gave me his Brother's medals [seated] still in the original box and 3 photo's taken around the time of the Treaty of Versailles. There is one that is definitely Versailles and I always thought that the one taken on some steps would have been at Versailles but now I doubt that and wonder if anyone can identify the location. In both photo's Harold has been circled. The 3rd photo appears to be taken in a large city, Paris perhaps. Can anyone place the location please. It would be interesting for me if I knew where they were taken.

Thanks in advance, Peter. 

I wonder if it might be the Ballroom Grove at the Palace of Versailles, a sort of small amphitheatre.

[P.Rhodes]

Thanks for the prompt reply Frogsmile. It's a good start but if it is the right place it has altered quite a lot. In my photo there seems to be a lot more to it. Do you think the city is likely to be Paris?

Peter

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

The middle image is definitely the Palace of Versailles, the Cour de Marbre - the Marble Court:

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cour_de_Marbre

Edited 30 September , 2023 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[FROGSMILE]

28 minutes ago, P.Rhodes said:

Thanks for the prompt reply Frogsmile. It's a good start but if it is the right place it has altered quite a lot. In my photo there seems to be a lot more to it. Do you think the city is likely to be Paris?

Peter

I’m not at all an expert Peter, but I think it likely that all the photos were taken at the Versailles Palace.  I say this for three reasons.  First that the talks leading up to the treaty went on for much longer than was originally thought by even the most pessimistic assessment, and it became necessary to organise regular trips there for Entente troops who were restless, bored and just wanting to go home.  Second the grounds there were, and are huge, with many features, and third that there was a lot of topiary, fountains, ornate steps and statuary, all of which feature to varying degrees in your photos. 

Edited 30 September , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[TullochArd]

The first picture is at the Parc de St Cloud.......with the water off.

Edited 30 September , 2023 by TullochArd

[FROGSMILE]

Brilliant Tullochard, that’s it alright.  Well found!

“The Parc de Saint-Cloud, officially the Domaine national de Saint-Cloud, is a domaine national located mostly within the Saint-Cloud commune, in the Hauts-de-Seine department, near Paris, France. The park, which covers 460 hectares, was a nature reserve on the left bank of the Seine until 1923.”

@P.Rhodes So you were right Peter, it’s near Paris and away from Versailles.  Another place of interest for the troops to visit.

Edited 30 September , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[P.Rhodes]

Thanks Tullochard and Frogsmile. I'm constantly amazed by the variety of knowledge on this forum. Well done.

Peter

[P.Rhodes]

Good afternoon

I've searched high and low for more photo's taken at the cascade in photo 1 and can't find any which I find surprising. Mine won't be the only one out there surely. Also does anyone think they recognise the unusual building in the background of photo 3 please. I'm thinking it's probably in Paris somewhere.

Cheers, Peter

[TullochArd]

2 hours ago, P.Rhodes said:

I've searched high and low for more photo's taken at the cascade in photo 1 and can't find any which I find surprising. Mine won't be the only one out there surely.

Photo 1: There is another similar photo (public domain) of multinational allies at the Parc de St. Cloud fountain.  Outdoor group portrait of soldiers taken at the Parc de St-Cloud. 1010 Sergeant George Edgar ... | Australian War Memorial (awm.gov.au)  Interestingly this gives the French photographers name (Photographie HENRI) and shows a date 24 Oct 1918 (Watkins returned to Australia on 13 July 1919)

 

[TullochArd]

2 hours ago, P.Rhodes said:

Also does anyone think they recognise the unusual building in the background of photo 3 please. I'm thinking it's probably in Paris somewhere.

Photo 3:  I tried.  I failed.  It's just too typical of french architecture and too limited in scope.  Considering all these fellows had to stay somewhere Parc de St. Cloud seems a feasible start point.  It was/is massive.  The St Cloud racecourse had been a Canadian (Quebec) hospital 1915-1918 and the place was littered with all types of camps and barracks.  I noticed some of the existing stone buildings have different construction as well i.e. fewer vertically arranged windows at front and more at backs which makes things difficult depending on the direction  of the photo.  The original chateau buildings were in ruins before the War so it isn't them of the surviving ones the Valois Pavilion was a poor possibility.  The best bet is to put this as the start point of some informal gathering or parade but I think this is unlikely. The Army dosn't do informal parades. I wonder if those home made flags are entrepreneurial photographer's props as part of the tour package?

"it's probably in Paris somewhere."

Edited 2 October , 2023 by TullochArd

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

All 3 shots could have been taken on the same day.
According to Google Maps, Paris (say Arc de Triomphe) to St Cloud by road is only 9km, and Versailles only another 11km.

[TullochArd]

Photo 2:  Here's another Versailles 'Photographie HENRI' photo same as yours - notice how the 'Flags of Many Nations' has materialised on yours - written on the back "Returned[?] / 28/4/18 / Taken whilst on leave / in Paris. The building / at rear is the famous / palace at Versailles built / by King Louis XIV regardless / of cost. It is the best / of its kind and is something / wonderful inside. / 1.3.18. Gil' Stamped on back: 'Photographie HENRI / 25, Rau d' Amsterdam, 25 / Gare St-Lazare-PARIS'

I'm getting the feel that we have here a well established leave excursion tour here and our 'Photographie Henri' has the camera monopoly at Versailles.  Now now need to find his photographic chums at 1. Parc de St. Cloud and the 3. the mystery location.

Edited 2 October , 2023 by TullochArd

[TullochArd]

Photo 3.  I am now aware that the YMCA secured a hotel in Paris late in the War which became it's headquarters in the city. It was used by Canadian, British and Australian troops on leave .........  I offer that Photos 1-3 are likely part of a YMCA tour.  Could Photo 3 be that hotel?

Here's an interesting related object ........  I can't make out the Hotel name in the "tour bus" image: 

Photography Canadian WWI, Paris France YMCA Photo Album, - Stewarts Military Antiques - $145.00

Edited 2 October , 2023 by TullochArd

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

2 hours ago, TullochArd said:

I can't make out the Hotel name in the "tour bus" image:

Hotel D'E**********

Should narrow it down a bit

 

Edit:  Hotel D'Iena  possibly?

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/292145-1918-ymca-nov-celebration-signatures-keeps-referring-to-blighty/

 

Edited 2 October , 2023 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

It's this building on the Place d'Iena in Paris. Between Avenue d'Iena and Avenue Pierre 1er de Serbie.:

Edited 2 October , 2023 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Chasemuseum]

Close but no cigar, too many points of difference

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

The modern building still has the 'HI' monogram on its facade (Hotel d'Iena)

[FROGSMILE]

17 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

The modern building still has the 'HI' monogram on its facade (Hotel d'Iena)

Well spotted Dai 👍

[P.Rhodes]

Thank you TullochArd, Dai, Chasemuseum and Frogsmile  for your thoughts and input. I can't remember whether Harold told me the photo's were taken after the war had ended or whether I have presumed that they were {in the one with the banners they look like victors}. I'm very surprised to see soldiers relaxing in Feb 1918. I realise leave was important but I didn't know there were tours for the troops. So mine may have been taken in 1918, we'll never know I suppose. My photo's are originals and the photographer's name is not there. The only mark is on the back, all 3 are numbered in pencil.

Thanks again, Peter

[FROGSMILE]

On 03/10/2023 at 15:34, P.Rhodes said:

Thank you TullochArd, Dai, Chasemuseum and Frogsmile  for your thoughts and input. I can't remember whether Harold told me the photo's were taken after the war had ended or whether I have presumed that they were {in the one with the banners they look like victors}. I'm very surprised to see soldiers relaxing in Feb 1918. I realise leave was important but I didn't know there were tours for the troops. So mine may have been taken in 1918, we'll never know I suppose. My photo's are originals and the photographer's name is not there. The only mark is on the back, all 3 are numbered in pencil.

Thanks again, Peter

Hello Peter, while it’s true that there were within-theatre organised leave periods early in 1918, especially I think for those whose families were not in the U.K. but far away, I suspect that your three photos were taken after the Armistice.  I say this because of the banners, that seem celebratory in nature, and there are clearly large contingents from all the English speaking nations that are unlikely to have been at large, on leave together, had the outcome of the war still been in the balance.

Edited 6 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[P.Rhodes]

Thanks Frogsmile.

[Chasemuseum]

Strongly agree with Frogsmile's comments above. Not my area of expertise but consistent with what I know.

[FROGSMILE]

10 hours ago, Chasemuseum said:

Strongly agree with Frogsmile's comments above. Not my area of expertise but consistent with what I know.

There were even charabancs laid on to transport troops from the hotel.  Note hotel name partially obscured by the tree.  This group seems to be predominantly Canadians and Australians.

Edited 6 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[P.Rhodes]

Thank you Chasemuseum and Frogsmile, what a great forum this is!

Peter