The swastika, the RFC and USAAC.

[PhilB]

I wasn’t aware of this symbol’s military use pre the 1930s though I know of its an ancient usage. Are there other WW1 examples?

From the Museum Crush website:-
 

“Royal Flying Corps Officer Lake, beside the Bristol F2 fighter plane known affectionately as the ‘Brisfit’ or ‘Biff’, which was a two-seater biplane used for both fighting and observation. Look closely and you will see that the plane is decorated with the symbol of a swastika, which might be quite a surprise to modern audiences.

But at this time it was an ancient symbol, which in Sanskrit means ‘wellbeing’ and was used by British and American military during the First World War,”

[DavidOwen]

The device has been around for a long, long time. Our current thinking in relation to this is tainted by the appropriation of it by the Nazis in the 1930s / 40s. That version is offset normally. Swastika - Wikipedia 

Interestingly an original marking appears on a medal relating to 383 Battery RFA from the ww1 era 383.BATTERY.R.F.A. | Imperial War Museums (iwm.org.uk)

[Loopgraaf]

Don't forget, the Airforce from Finland used in 1918 until WW2 also a blue swastika, but in right position. 

Showed here on their first plane Thulin, type D. 

[DavidOwen]

You could also search the forum for "swastika" - quite a few results.

[James A Pratt III]

I think there is a photo of an RFC/RAF RE 8 with a swastika painted on it.

[PhilB]

Fritz Beckhardt, a Jewish pilot who flew in the same squadron as Goering in WW1.

[Buffnut453]

6 hours ago, PhilB said:

I wasn’t aware of this symbol’s military use pre the 1930s though I know of its an ancient usage. Are there other WW1 examples?

From the Museum Crush website:-
 

“Royal Flying Corps Officer Lake, beside the Bristol F2 fighter plane known affectionately as the ‘Brisfit’ or ‘Biff’, which was a two-seater biplane used for both fighting and observation. Look closely and you will see that the plane is decorated with the symbol of a swastika, which might be quite a surprise to modern audiences.

But at this time it was an ancient symbol, which in Sanskrit means ‘wellbeing’ and was used by British and American military during the First World War,”

That's a great photo.  Many thanks for sharing.  Are there any details about the location, date or unit, please?

Edited 25 September , 2023 by Buffnut453

[PhilB]

Afraid not. 🙁

[Buffnut453]

Too bad.  It's certainly an interesting marking.

[Loopgraaf]

Tried to find the front name of the pilot. But that is a problem.

The photographer Luke Basshaw had made a lot of pictures around Doncaster.

Will this information help?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._82_Squadron_RAF

 

[PhilB]

Can we be sure he is actually an officer?

 

[Buffnut453]

Lots of questions remain.  He could easily be an Observer or Air Gunner rather than a Pilot.  Note that he isn't wearing any wings which, if he was a pilot, perhaps suggests he was still in training.  I rather like the idea that the aircraft is in a Training Squadron simply because such a large, noticeable marking would rather contradict the squadron identification markings used in France prior to the spring of 1918, and to the individual aircraft letters/numbers that were often worn by Bristol F2b Fighter airframes after that time.  

[Loopgraaf]

For sure, the 82 Squadron Royal Flying Corps was formed at Doncaster, see link in other message from me.

Problem, wrong plane.

Other thing to think about, maybe was it a personal touch from the pilot to his plane.

[PhilB]

What might he be carrying?

[Matlock1418]

12 hours ago, Loopgraaf said:

The photographer Luke Basshaw had made a lot of pictures around Doncaster.

I believe that photographer was Luke BAGSHAW

M

[alex revell]

Buffnut. Yes, the swastika was an ancient sign meaning well being. Where the Nazi's got it wrong was they got it the wrong way round which means the opposite.

Just a small nit pic. The Bristol fighter was not known as a Brisfit or the Biff in WW1. That came in in the thirties. Source: many pilots of WW1 including the  great W F J Harvey that great exponent of the Bristol Fighter. His book 'P1 in the Sky.' the history of 22 Sqdn in W1 is  great. It was first published privately but later commercially. Don't remember who by. My copy is a signed  private version.  As a Buffnut it's a book you would really enjoy, essential reading . 

Alex

[Buffnut453]

5 hours ago, alex revell said:

Buffnut. Yes, the swastika was an ancient sign meaning well being. Where the Nazi's got it wrong was they got it the wrong way round which means the opposite.

Just a small nit pic. The Bristol fighter was not known as a Brisfit or the Biff in WW1. That came in in the thirties. Source: many pilots of WW1 including the  great W F J Harvey that great exponent of the Bristol Fighter. His book 'P1 in the Sky.' the history of 22 Sqdn in W1 is  great. It was first published privately but later commercially. Don't remember who by. My copy is a signed  private version.  As a Buffnut it's a book you would really enjoy, essential reading . 

Alex

Hi Alex,

Thanks for the response but I wasn't the original OP, I'm aware of the swastika's history, and I never used the term Brisfit or Biff.  My relative, who flew them operationally in 1918, only ever referred to it as "the Bristol."  Luckily for me, I also have a signed copy of "Pi in the Sky."

Cheers,
Mark

[alex revell]

Apologies Buffnut. It was PhilB 

[Buffnut453]

14 hours ago, alex revell said:

Apologies Buffnut. It was PhilB 

It's all good, mate.  Just messing with you a wee bit.  I'm sure we've all done the "ready, fire, aim" thing on various fora!

In fairness to PhilB, I'm pretty sure it was the website he was quoting which mentioned Biff and Brisfit.  I'm sure he'd never commit such a heinous crime!

Happy days!

Edited 27 September , 2023 by Buffnut453

[PhilB]

PS  Still don`t know what he is carrying!

[thedawnpatrol]

On 25/09/2023 at 21:01, PhilB said:

Can we be sure he is actually an officer?

 

I would say that he is an Airman mechanic,  rather than an officer, Pilot or Observer.

i can tell by the way his tunic hangs and he is probably carrying a tool bag..............