German Artillery Battery for coastal defense at Ajar on the Syrian cost?

[Holger Kotthaus]

German Artillery Battery for coastal defense at Ajar on the Syrian cost?

"In October 1917, the "Euphrates-River-Detachment" had to hand over naval-
operating-crews and several of the 10.5 centimeter quick-loading guns to Syria,
where they were positioned near Ajar. This command was called the "Jemal Pasha
Battery" and was intended to provide coastal defence, because there were fears of
British landings in Syria."

Any idea where this was?

Regards Holger

 

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

A number of batteries from the Reserve Divisions were stationed along the coast at any one time.

Jemal Pasha battery

Only relates to the old 4th Army Commander 

Mirliva / Tuggeneral    General    Ahmed Djemal or Ahmet Cemal or Cemel Pasha     Comdr 2nd Army 8-14 to Comdr 4th Army (from Zeki) 12-14 to 9-17 to Govenor & Commander General of Syria and Arabia Army Groups led first Invasion of Egypt 1915

(born 1872 on the island of Lesbos died 21-7-22) graduated from the War Academy in 1893 He joined the CUP in 1899 to Maj 1905 he was appointed to the Staff of the Third army 1907 to LtCol 1908 to Governor of Baghdad 1911 to Col 1912 Balkan Wars joined the cabinet in November 1913 as the Minister of Public Works to General and became the Minister of Navy 1914 to Governor of Syria 1915 known among the local Arab inhabitants as al-Saffah "the Blood Shedder" murdered with his Aids Lt Nusret Bey & Sureyya Bey (reported killed by Armenian assassins or Georgian secret police at Tbilisi on 21 July 1922

 

The 4th Ottoman Army during this peroid

Nov 1914 - 12th Corps and 8th Corps - shown Erickson Dec 1916 8th Corps (3rd Div 23rd Div 24th Div 27th Div) 12th Corps (41st Div 42nd Div 43rd Div 46th Div)

Reports show 33 batteries - 10 field 23 mountain with a total of 132 guns in Aug 1914 only by 1915 most of these were gone to other Fronts

shown Armies Artillery Troops to March 1917 10th Heavy (Agir) How Bty (2x 100mm) 254th Heavy (Agir) How (2x 150mm) 1Bn/6th FAR (8x Schneider 75mm M 1907

Later the 4th Army Area was a back water and its Troops and weapons were used to reequip the main Armees (7th & 8th Armies) but still having to watch the coast line from Gaza to Alexandretta

 

I did recall reading about a famous Ottoman Artillery commander who took on the British Fleet sinking a number of ships at one time, I think one of the ships engaged was a Seaplane Carrier (Ben my Shee) or another?

PS

found the man

Topçu Yüzbasi     Capt (Arty)    Mustafa Ertugrul Efendi (Aker)    Bty coastal Syria (4x 77mm guns) actions at Canakkale Galicia the Caucasus Iraq and Egypt    WIA 1919 at Aydin    born 1893 at Hanya Crete died 1961) later War of Independence married a daughter of his commander Sefik Bey (Aker)  shown his Mountain Bty sunk the British Seaplane carrier "Ben My Chree" around Meis (Castello Rosso) Island 9-1-17 awarded Silver Liakat Medal and German EK II 
 

take the 77mm guns with a grain of salt as they were few of these guns around at that time more likely 75mm guns

Edited 19 September by stevenbecker

[Holger Kotthaus]

4 hours ago, stevenbecker said:

Mate,

A number of batteries from the Reserve Divisions were stationed along the coast at any one time.

Jemal Pasha battery

Only relates to the old 4th Army Commander 

Mirliva / Tuggeneral    General    Ahmed Djemal or Ahmet Cemal or Cemel Pasha     Comdr 2nd Army 8-14 to Comdr 4th Army (from Zeki) 12-14 to 9-17 to Govenor & Commander General of Syria and Arabia Army Groups led first Invasion of Egypt 1915

(born 1872 on the island of Lesbos died 21-7-22) graduated from the War Academy in 1893 He joined the CUP in 1899 to Maj 1905 he was appointed to the Staff of the Third army 1907 to LtCol 1908 to Governor of Baghdad 1911 to Col 1912 Balkan Wars joined the cabinet in November 1913 as the Minister of Public Works to General and became the Minister of Navy 1914 to Governor of Syria 1915 known among the local Arab inhabitants as al-Saffah "the Blood Shedder" murdered with his Aids Lt Nusret Bey & Sureyya Bey (reported killed by Armenian assassins or Georgian secret police at Tbilisi on 21 July 1922

 

The 4th Ottoman Army during this peroid

Nov 1914 - 12th Corps and 8th Corps - shown Erickson Dec 1916 8th Corps (3rd Div 23rd Div 24th Div 27th Div) 12th Corps (41st Div 42nd Div 43rd Div 46th Div)

Reports show 33 batteries - 10 field 23 mountain with a total of 132 guns in Aug 1914 only by 1915 most of these were gone to other Fronts

shown Armies Artillery Troops to March 1917 10th Heavy (Agir) How Bty (2x 100mm) 254th Heavy (Agir) How (2x 150mm) 1Bn/6th FAR (8x Schneider 75mm M 1907

Later the 4th Army Area was a back water and its Troops and weapons were used to reequip the main Armees (7th & 8th Armies) but still having to watch the coast line from Gaza to Alexandretta

 

I did recall reading about a famous Ottoman Artillery commander who took on the British Fleet sinking a number of ships at one time, I think one of the ships engaged was a Seaplane Carrier (Ben my Shee) or another?

PS

found the man

Topçu Yüzbasi     Capt (Arty)    Mustafa Ertugrul Efendi (Aker)    Bty coastal Syria (4x 77mm guns) actions at Canakkale Galicia the Caucasus Iraq and Egypt    WIA 1919 at Aydin    born 1893 at Hanya Crete died 1961) later War of Independence married a daughter of his commander Sefik Bey (Aker)  shown his Mountain Bty sunk the British Seaplane carrier "Ben My Chree" around Meis (Castello Rosso) Island 9-1-17 awarded Silver Liakat Medal and German EK II 
 

take the 77mm guns with a grain of salt as they were few of these guns around at that time more likely 75mm guns

 

Steve; -  good morning, or should I say good evening ?

Many thank´s you for your detailed and comprehensive statement.

With my question I refer to a German text source. Here we are
talking about 10.5 cm QF guns (not field guns), which were called the
"Dschemal Pascha Batterie" at Ajas / Ajus / Raju? were used as coastal defenses.

Original Source, page 14 / 1166 below:
Die Post der "Tigris-" und "Euphrat-Flußabteilung"
Ausgabe Nr. 67 im Mai 1977 (Seiten 1 - 14)
https://kolonialmarken.de/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/EB_067.pdf

Holger

 

Edited 20 September by Holger Kotthaus

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

This area is a bit short on many details and an area I have been looking into for a while but the Fleet/ships the Germans help form are still not written down as yet

Engelkind (Engelking) Oskar    Kapt-Lt Marine    "Mittelmeerdivision" Sonderkommando der Kaiserlichen Marine in der Türkei Firat'ta Dogan Hücüm botu komutani (Dogan Force botto commander at Firat (Euphrates) River) Mesopotamia - shown Sdr-Kdo (Sonderkommando) brought 6 men an 6cm-Geschütz von SMS "Goeben" to commander gunboat "Dogan" on the Tigris possibly around July 1915 scuttled near Tavill 26-2-17    1915-16     Mesopotamia awarded EK II 6-15 (not identified) shown in Klaus Wolf's Book

a check finds

Doğan[14] ("Falcon")

Gebr. Wiemann, Brandenburg Yd No 140 LOA 35.5m, LPP 34.8m, B 6.3m, D 1.6m 250t, Steel 6.5kts (1915) 30 Ottomans, 5 Germans (1915), 42 (1916)

Steam, 1 shaft 1 water tube, A Borsing, - 1 triple expansion vertical, 350ihp, Wiemann 1x60mm QF, 4x47mm QF, 1x37mm QF (1915), 1x60mm QF, 1x57mm QF, 2x47mm QF, 1x37mm QF, 1xMG (1916)

1911 Apr. 1911 Apr. 1911 Apr. 1911

17 Sep. 1912 Pionier R Wönkhaus, Hamburgbr />1913 based at Baghdad as river tug May 1915 chartered by Ottoman Navy 17–29 Jun. 1915 refitted by Bağadat Demiryolu İnşaat 2 Jul. 1915 commissioned 26 Feb. 1917 damaged by gunfire from British gunboat Mantis near Al Aziziyah (present day in Wasit Governorate), run ground.

The names of many of these men are known, or found by me, but like most details in this area you can never be 100%

I did a quick check of my DB and came up with this name

Staubwasser (Staubwaßer) Oskar    Maj    701st Bn - CO Stab HQ - Infanterie-Bataillon 701 see Orbat 1917 to staff 4th Ottoman Army 1-18 to 4-18 to Ottoman Ajas" Detachment - Filistin'de Alman Asya Ordusu ve Mersin Sahil Koruma'da görevli (German Asian Army in Palestine and Coast Guard in Mersin)    1917-18     Bavarian from 10th Bavarian Infanterie Regiment

I have only that on him, maybe you can find more?

Edited 20 September by stevenbecker

[Holger Kotthaus]

3 hours ago, stevenbecker said:

This area is a bit short on many details and an area I have been looking into for a while but the Fleet/ships the Germans help form are still not written down as yet

Confirmed; - This theatre of War is at this area completely new for me.
Maybe that´s the reason I didn't find much in the available sources.

 

3 hours ago, stevenbecker said:

Engelkind (Engelking) Oskar    Kapt-Lt Marine    "Mittelmeerdivision" Sonderkommando der Kaiserlichen Marine in der Türkei Firat'ta Dogan Hücüm botu komutani (Dogan Force botto commander at Firat (Euphrates) River) Mesopotamia - shown Sdr-Kdo (Sonderkommando) brought 6 men an 6cm-Geschütz von SMS "Goeben" to commander gunboat "Dogan" on the Tigris possibly around July 1915 scuttled near Tavill 26-2-17    1915-16     Mesopotamia awarded EK II 6-15 (not identified) shown in Klaus Wolf's Book

a check finds

Doğan[14] ("Falcon")

Gebr. Wiemann, Brandenburg Yd No 140 LOA 35.5m, LPP 34.8m, B 6.3m, D 1.6m 250t, Steel 6.5kts (1915) 30 Ottomans, 5 Germans (1915), 42 (1916)

Steam, 1 shaft 1 water tube, A Borsing, - 1 triple expansion vertical, 350ihp, Wiemann 1x60mm QF, 4x47mm QF, 1x37mm QF (1915), 1x60mm QF, 1x57mm QF, 2x47mm QF, 1x37mm QF, 1xMG (1916)

1911 Apr. 1911 Apr. 1911 Apr. 1911

17 Sep. 1912 Pionier R Wönkhaus, Hamburgbr />1913 based at Baghdad as river tug May 1915 chartered by Ottoman Navy 17–29 Jun. 1915 refitted by Bağadat Demiryolu İnşaat 2 Jul. 1915 commissioned 26 Feb. 1917 damaged by gunfire from British gunboat Mantis near Al Aziziyah (present day in Wasit Governorate), run ground.

 

Within in the same source above, the following was mentioned about this
River-Gun-Boat "Doğan" / "Doghan". Formaly a German river Steamer, build
in Germany 1911, crew 24 men, Owner: Company `Woenkhaus in Bagdad´.

 

3 hours ago, stevenbecker said:

Staubwasser (Staubwaßer) Oskar    Maj    701st Bn - CO Stab HQ - Infanterie-Bataillon 701 see Orbat 1917 to staff 4th Ottoman Army 1-18 to 4-18 to Ottoman Ajas" Detachment - Filistin'de Alman Asya Ordusu ve Mersin Sahil Koruma'da görevli (German Asian Army in Palestine and Coast Guard in Mersin)    1917-18     Bavarian from 10th Bavarian Infanterie Regiment

Your reference is currently the only confirmation of this strange-sounding name.

At the moment I am still looking for the exact position of Ajas / Ajus / Raju (?),
which is currently the only reference. I suspect the position would have been
south of the town and bay of İskenderun / Alexandretta?

Your further reference Mersin; - this Turkish coastal town is further west of it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersin

In addition, these 10.5 cm QF Navy-Guns must have been installed in a prepared
(concreted) position. So with this, completely different requirements than a battery
of Field-Guns that can go into position virtually anywhere.

Holger

Edited 20 September by Holger Kotthaus

[stevenbecker]

Holger,

Yes I checked that out, it filled a number of holes in who was there, and the Command structure during the war

Yes thats where I think they mean, west of Alexandretta near Mersina, that is mention in the same 

Again a check of google maps has me beat

You saw this also

Striesow     LtzS Marine    to (Tigris-Euphrates Flotila Det) with three Small motor boats and 20 crew  27-3-16     1916-18    shown as River gunboat "A" "B" and "C" They mostly served only as tugs for the gun lighters (Geschützleichler) "Falke" 10.5-centimeter quick-loading guns at Dscherablus or Jerablus (not identified)?
 

Falke was the only name given and the others were not named

[charlie2]

Ajas is NW of Alexandretta. The map is from Schlachten des Weltkriegs - Jildirim, Übersichtskarte der Türkei.

Charlie

[Holger Kotthaus]

8 hours ago, charlie2 said:

Ajas is NW of Alexandretta. The map is from Schlachten des Weltkriegs - Jildirim, Übersichtskarte der Türkei.

Charlie

Hello charlie2

That´s great; - Thank you so much!
Now I know where to focus. I always need maps for detailed research.

For someone who is interested. The book can now also be downloaded online.
You can also choose the pure text, and single page format in the viewer
of the index for copy & past function (necessary for translation):
Schlachten des Weltkrieges Band 4 "Jildirim" Berlin 1925
https://digi.landesbibliothek.at/viewer/toc/AC00635481/1/

I try to connect also here for more detailed maps:
A provisional guide to German military topographic map
series of Ottoman Asia in the First World War
https://ica-proc.copernicus.org/articles/3/6/2021/ica-proc-3-6-2021.pdf

Cheers Holger

 

Edited 20 September by Holger Kotthaus

[stevenbecker]

Yes cheers the town of Akyuya

Makes sence when the idea was to protect the main Transport line through Adana

One of the reasons for putting in the Seaplane base at Mersina

along with Ottoman Air Companies based around there.

The Ottoman 41st Div was also based around there area

raised Syria 1915 Alexandretta Garrision 1916/18

Garrision Ebha 1914  - shown 131st Regt formed from Adana Jandarma Regt * 134th Regt to 7th Div - shown Feb 1917 Allied reports - 131st Regt 132nd Regt 133rd Regt - shown Dec 1917  * 4Bn/134th Regt to 58th Div 1918 - shown Feb 1918 Allied reports (131st Regt 132nd Regt and 133rd Regt + 538Bn Coastal defences) - shown Aug 1918 - 131st Regt 132nd Regt 139th Regt 147th Regt 10th Regt 

shown Feb 1918 Allied reports 1Bn/41st FAR (8x 75mm guns) 2Bn/41st FAR (8x 105mm How guns) 4Bn/41st FAR (4x 75mm guns) 5Bn/41st FAR (6x 75mm guns) 
 

The 16th Ottoman Division was the main formed unit, but it fought on other fronts

formed (Adana Mersin Alexandratta) to Thrace 1914 to Gallipoli May 1915 Garrison 1916 to Palestine Gaza battles 1917 destroyed Sept 1918
 

Edited 20 September by stevenbecker

[michaeldr]

In the winter of 1914-15, HMS Doris spent some time bombarding and raiding along the Ottoman coast in this area: see 'THREE MONTHS OFF THE SYRIAN COAST' by Lieut. H. Pirrie-Gordon, RNVR, which appeared in The Naval Review, Vol.III., 1915. These actions by HMS Doris are also mentioned in the Naval OH; see https://www.naval-history.net/WW1Book-RN2a.htm#IV . The map below is also from that volume of the Naval OH

 

Edited 21 September by michaeldr
spelling!

[Holger Kotthaus]

9 hours ago, michaeldr said:

In the winter of 1914-15, HMS Doris spent some time bombarding and raiding along the Ottoman coast in this area: see 'THREE MONTHS OFF THE SYRIAN COAST' by Lieut. H. Pirrie-Gordon, RNVR, which appeared in The Naval Review, Vol.III., 1915. These actions by HMS Doris are also mentioned in the Naval OH; see https://www.naval-history.net/WW1Book-RN2a.htm#IV . The map below is also from that volume of the Naval OH

 

Michael,

I'm excited; - Very nicely detailed map; - Thank´s a lot.

"Having completed his work at Alexandretta Captain Larken stood across the gulf to
Ayas Bay, where he had heard of a likely prize. There he found the Deutsche-
Levante liner "Odessa", a new ship of 8,476 tons, but she had been abandoned by
her crew and sunk in 2 ½ fathoms. After driving off a field battery that tried to
interrupt the proceedings, an attempt was made to float her, but it was found to be
impossible, and she was blown up and burned on Christmas eve."
Source: https://www.naval-history.net/WW1Book-RN2a.htm#IV

I also searched the whole series, from:
NAVAL OPERATIONS, Volume 2, December 1914 to Spring 1915 (Part 1 of 2)
to:
NAVAL OPERATIONS, Volume 5 (Part 4 of 4), Appendices (II)
but didn´t find any further confrontations at Ajas.

This could mean that the 10.5 cm battery at Ayas never went into action,
regardless of the fact that it was only installed there in October 1917.

Further reason that I didn't found Ayas, because the German Source mentioned the
Syrian Coast and I expect because of this, the position more south. (At the `Vilâyet
Aleppo / Sandschak Halep´, and not in `Vilâyet Adana / Sandschak Osmaniye´)

Holger

 

Edited 21 September by Holger Kotthaus

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

Yes all I found were operations by the British Airforce, either on bases or by ship/seaplane carrier.

These attacked the rail and road network and Bridges along the main and only Transport link, from West to the rest of Turkey and beyond, like Palestine and Mespot and Caucuses

British bases, were I understand, on Cyprus

But it an area I am unsure of.

[michaeldr]

16 hours ago, Holger Kotthaus said:

"Having completed his work at Alexandretta Captain Larken stood across the gulf to
Ayas Bay, where he had heard of a likely prize. There he found the Deutsche-
Levante liner "Odessa", a new ship of 8,476 tons, but she had been abandoned by
her crew and sunk in 2 ½ fathoms. After driving off a field battery that tried to
interrupt the proceedings, an attempt was made to float her, but it was found to be
impossible, and she was blown up and burned on Christmas eve."
Source: https://www.naval-history.net/WW1Book-RN2a.htm#IV

This is how Lt H. Pirrie-Gordon, RNVR described those events in his above mentioned article

 

"THE ODESSA.

Next morning early the Doris proceeded to destroy a road bridge about 1,500 yards south of Jonah's Pillar in order to prevent the Turks from using it for motor transport. It was satisfactorily reduced by thirteen 6" lyddite and two 6" common. After that, acting on information received, the ship stood across into Yamurtalik*, or Mortalik Bay, where a vainglorious field battery opened fire and fled after hearing a single salvo in reply. The truthful historian cannot claim that either side hit anything, but this was pardonable as in both cases the fire was indirect. The lieutenant (G) however, espied a Turkish helio-graph "tempestuously at play" more than 10,000 yards away and landed a 6" lyddite within 200 yards of the post, it being nearly the extreme range of the piece. Brother Turk packed up and vanished without more ado. The commander then proceeded to board the Deutsch Levant Linie "Odessa" which had been sunk in two-and-a-half fathoms by her crew, whose sausages and bacon were still hot and appetizing when the boarding party reached her. Unfortunately the vital parts of the pumps had been removed and in consequence of this it was impossible to float her in less than six days. Although she was a new ship of some 6,300 tons the authorities decided that the time needed for raising her could not be spared, and orders were given for her destruction. She was therefore blown up and burned on December 24^th (1914) but not before care had been taken to remove much that was useful or ornamental from so sad a fate."

* edit to add - Yamurtalik Bay is the same as Ayas Bay [see https://www.google.com/maps/@36.767544,35.62822,9z?entry=ttu ]

 

Edited 22 September by michaeldr

[michaeldr]

re the Odessa's eventual fate, see https://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ship/79.html

Edited 22 September by michaeldr

[Holger Kotthaus]

4 hours ago, michaeldr said:

This is how Lt H. Pirrie-Gordon, RNVR described those events in his above mentioned article

 

"THE ODESSA.

Next morning early the Doris proceeded to destroy a road bridge about 1,500 yards south of Jonah's Pillar in order to prevent the Turks from using it for motor transport. It was satisfactorily reduced by thirteen 6" lyddite and two 6" common. After that, acting on information received, the ship stood across into Yamurtalik*, or Mortalik Bay, where a vainglorious field battery opened fire and fled after hearing a single salvo in reply. The truthful historian cannot claim that either side hit anything, but this was pardonable as in both cases the fire was indirect. The lieutenant (G) however, espied a Turkish helio-graph "tempestuously at play" more than 10,000 yards away and landed a 6" lyddite within 200 yards of the post, it being nearly the extreme range of the piece. Brother Turk packed up and vanished without more ado. The commander then proceeded to board the Deutsch Levant Linie "Odessa" which had been sunk in two-and-a-half fathoms by her crew, whose sausages and bacon were still hot and appetizing when the boarding party reached her. Unfortunately the vital parts of the pumps had been removed and in consequence of this it was impossible to float her in less than six days. Although she was a new ship of some 6,300 tons the authorities decided that the time needed for raising her could not be spared, and orders were given for her destruction. She was therefore blown up and burned on December 24^th (1914) but not before care had been taken to remove much that was useful or ornamental from so sad a fate."

* edit to add - Yamurtalik Bay is the same as Ayas Bay [see https://www.google.com/maps/@36.767544,35.62822,9z?entry=ttu ]

 

Many thanks for these additions.

". . . vainglorious field battery. . ."

I never heard such a description like this, about a field gun battery.

Does this mean the Turkish operating crew or the German Krupp guns? (- -)

Is there more precise location information as to where this battery was located?

 

Regards Holger

 

Edited 22 September by Holger Kotthaus

[stevenbecker]

Holger,

In late 14 early 15, an Ottoman Battery would be a four gun battery of 75's of the Ottoman Artillery, possibly 75mm M 1907 Krupp or older guns from a Reserve unit

When you look at HMS Doris, you can see why the small battery was driven off, but was the Doris alone and were there other ships in the group?

"HMS Doris was one of nine Eclipse-class cruisers built in the years 1896-99, which were the direct successor to the Astraea class. They were larger in size and displacement, and received stronger armor and armor with a similar speed to their predecessors.

HMS Doris had a displacement of 5690 t (5600 long tones) at an overall length of 113.7 m, width of 16.3 m and draft of 6.25 m. The ship was driven by two triple-cylinder vertical triple expansion steam engines, supplied by 8 coal-fired boilers, which moved a pair of propellers. The engines reached 8000 horsepower, giving a top speed of 18.5 knots. The normal stockpile of coal was 550 tons, and at maximum capacity the ship could take almost twice as much fuel at 1075 tons. The initial crew of the ship consisted of 393 officers and sailors.

The cruiser was initially armed with five single-arm 152 mm (6 inch ) guns, six 120 mm (4.7 inch) guns, six three-pound (47 mm) guns, and three 18-inch (450 mm) torpedo tubes. After the modernization of 1903-1905, the armament of the ship was as follows: eleven 152 mm guns, nine twelve-pound guns (76 mm), seven three-pound guns (47 mm) and three 450 mm torpedo launchers. During the First World War, the armament was limited to nine 152 mm guns, four 76 mm guns and one 47 mm gun, leaving torpedo armament unchanged. The deck armor had a thickness of 38 to 76 mm (1.5 to 3 inches) with the command tower having a thickness up to 152 mm. Main artillery pieces were protected by 76 mm thick casings."

The battery, like a number, were moblie units, as there was no fixed unit, other then paramilitary Jandarma or other Border defence units around there

The Battery could have been part of the local defences or attached Temp from another unit, 

The main fighting units were formed in and around Syria, south of that area (23rd to 25th Div's), while the others (41st to 44th Div) were still not formed at that time.

By 1918 the defences are more solid as the Batteries of the 41st Div would have made some prep, but again there would have been a mixed, fixed and moblie gun units

A Turkish expert is needed to see what they have in the Area, as my poor sources don't give that details.

 

Edited 22 September by stevenbecker

[stevenbecker]

PS Holger,

I just notice this on another subject.

I give a number of Coast Guard units along the Turkish and Syrian Coast 

units of the called Sahil Muhafaza (coast guards) or Gümrük Muhafaza./Duane/Zoll/ Customs guards

see the other site

I was searching in the UK National Archives online and come across a caption regarding HMS Doris operating off the Turkish Coast in 1915. An incident is recounted by a Cmdr or Capt. Twiggs RN of 40 Turkish POWs being "deliberately murdered" as retaliation for Turkish mutilation of British dead.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov. ... 8bc06719da
Reference: AGDT/2
Title: Volume 2.
Description:
At the start of the diary Doris was still engaged in shelling Gaba Tepe. Twigg gives a second-hand report of the deliberate killing of 40 Turkish prisoners in retalliation for Turkish mutilation of Allied dead. On 8 May Doris joined the Smyrna Patrol, the main activities there being to lay mines and destroy shore-based search lights. of the time spent in the Smyrna bay was occupied with routine duties and swimming, which left Twigg "intensely bored". The transport and landing of over 2000 men at Suvla Bay on 17/18 August was something of a climax for Twigg amidst the continued inactivity. In October Doris moved to Salonika and until mid-November was engaged in bombarding the area around Dedeagatch, the prime targets being railway installations and military barracks.

and answer

Feldblatt - 1915.01.13 - Seite 2
Konstantinopel, 12. I., K. B. — Der
englische Kreuzer „Doris", der seit einiger Zeit in
den syrischen Gewässern kreuzte und die Telegraphen-
leitungen zerstörte, landete am 0. Jänner bei Sari-
Seki Truppen, die jedoch infolge des kräftigen
Widerstandes der Küstenwache wieder an Bord gehen
mußten, wobei sie 11 Miuiitionskistcn und eine Menge
verschiedener Geräte zurückließen. Tags darauf nahm
der Feind eine zweite Landung an der Küste bei
Alcxandretta vor und beschoß gegen das Völkerrecht
die oifenen Ortschaften mit Kanonen und Maschinen ­
gewehren, wobei mehrere Personen den Tod fanden."

[michaeldr]

Holger,

Don't take too much notice of Pirie-Gordon's (the name was misspelt by me earlier - sorry) style of writing; in this case he was trying to entertain, as well as inform. 
There's more on this interesting character here:

Later in the war he switched to the army and by 1919, he held the rank of Lieutenant-Colonel and was the Military Editor of The Palestine News. I understand that in between he had worked in Intelligence in Cairo.

You asked - "Is there more precise location information as to where this battery was located?"
I'm sorry but I don't have that information and the log of HMS Doris does not appear to be on-line.

 

Steve,
At the time of HMS Doris' activities off the Syrian coast (winter 1914-1915) her Captain was Frank Larken RN, and Twigg was a Lieutenant-Commander.

Edited 23 September by michaeldr

[Holger Kotthaus]

2 hours ago, michaeldr said:

Holger,

Don't take too much notice of Pirie-Gordon's (the name was misspelt by me earlier - sorry) style of writing; in this case he was trying to entertain, as well as inform. 
There's more on this interesting character here:

Later in the war he switched to the army and by 1919, he held the rank of Lieutenant-Colonel and was the Military Editor of The Palestine News. I understand that in between he had worked in Intelligence in Cairo.

You asked - "Is there more precise location information as to where this battery was located?"
I'm sorry but I don't have that information and the log of HMS Doris does not appear to be on-line.

 

Steve,
At the time of HMS Doris' activities off the Syrian coast (winter 1914-1915) her Captain was Frank Larken RN, and Twigg was a Lieutenant-Commander.

Michael,

Thanks for your explanatory answer. But of course I have alread read your detailed
post: "Harry Pirie-Gordon - what was he doing on Gallipoli?" from 2013. In addition,
also your many valuable contributions to the GWF on these topics.

And don't worry about the ". . . vainglorious field battery. . .", it was only a yoke. (- -)

 

Since there were no other actions in the Bay of Alexandretta apart from the actions
of the "HMS Doris" near Ayas in 1914/15, it is not surprising that there are no further
reports about this in the historical records.

Regards Holger

 

[Holger Kotthaus]

10 hours ago, stevenbecker said:

PS Holger,

I just notice this on another subject.

I give a number of Coast Guard units along the Turkish and Syrian Coast 

units of the called Sahil Muhafaza (coast guards) or Gümrük Muhafaza./Duane/Zoll/ Customs guards

see the other site

I was searching in the UK National Archives online and come across a caption regarding HMS Doris operating off the Turkish Coast in 1915. An incident is recounted by a Cmdr or Capt. Twiggs RN of 40 Turkish POWs being "deliberately murdered" as retaliation for Turkish mutilation of British dead.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov. ... 8bc06719da
Reference: AGDT/2
Title: Volume 2.
Description:
At the start of the diary Doris was still engaged in shelling Gaba Tepe. Twigg gives a second-hand report of the deliberate killing of 40 Turkish prisoners in retalliation for Turkish mutilation of Allied dead. On 8 May Doris joined the Smyrna Patrol, the main activities there being to lay mines and destroy shore-based search lights. of the time spent in the Smyrna bay was occupied with routine duties and swimming, which left Twigg "intensely bored". The transport and landing of over 2000 men at Suvla Bay on 17/18 August was something of a climax for Twigg amidst the continued inactivity. In October Doris moved to Salonika and until mid-November was engaged in bombarding the area around Dedeagatch, the prime targets being railway installations and military barracks.

and answer

Feldblatt - 1915.01.13 - Seite 2
Konstantinopel, 12. I., K. B. — Der
englische Kreuzer „Doris", der seit einiger Zeit in
den syrischen Gewässern kreuzte und die Telegraphen-
leitungen zerstörte, landete am 0. Jänner bei Sari-
Seki Truppen, die jedoch infolge des kräftigen
Widerstandes der Küstenwache wieder an Bord gehen
mußten, wobei sie 11 Miuiitionskistcn und eine Menge
verschiedener Geräte zurückließen. Tags darauf nahm
der Feind eine zweite Landung an der Küste bei
Alcxandretta vor und beschoß gegen das Völkerrecht
die oifenen Ortschaften mit Kanonen und Maschinen ­
gewehren, wobei mehrere Personen den Tod fanden."

Hello Steve,

I would also like to thank you also very much for your many tireless contributions to this topic.

I first have to explain the background to my following question:

"The Turkish General Staff has an active historical division that
has published a 27-volume official military history series
concerning the Ottoman Army's participation in the First World War."

10 years ago I bought Volume No. VI and had it translated into German for a few hundred euros. (- -)
(Birinci Dünya Harbinde Türk Harbi. VI ncı cilt, Hicaz, Asir, Yemen Cepheleri ve Libya Harekâtı, 1914-1918.
https://kutuphane.ttk.gov.tr/details?id=502838&materialType=KT&query=Dünya+Savaşları+I.)
Because of the very extensive map material, this volume alone was an indispensable contribution to this topic!

But back to my actual question:
You have already proven through your dozens of articles in the GWF and
also in the AHF that you have very extensive detailed knowledge of the topic.

Do you know whether any of the 27 Turkish volumes described above, report on the
situation at Ayas in the Bay of Alexandretta from October 1917 to November 1918?

Regards Holger

 

[michaeldr]

Just as a matter of interest -

Under the terms of the Sykes-Picot agreement (May 1916) the area around Ayas was to fall under French administration, and from August 1916 the British agreed to the French training Armenian volunteers on Cyprus for the purpose of attacking Armenian Cilicia.  [However they were eventually deployed to Palestine]
The Ottomans no doubt had intelligence on this and should have been actively taking steps to defend this coast line.
Cyprus was an intelligence sieve during the war, primarily because it was under the Colonial Office rather than the Foreign Office and the British High Commissioner there took a very independent view of security, much to the distaste of the authorities in Cairo and those in intelligence working with the Army and the Royal Navy.
[see https://www.jstor.org/stable/26098479 ]

edit to add - Sorry but that link seems not to work, however it refers to 'British Military Intelligence in Cyprus during the Great War' by Andrekos Varnava, Flinders University, Australia

Edited 23 September by michaeldr

[Holger Kotthaus]

21 hours ago, michaeldr said:

Just as a matter of interest -

Under the terms of the Sykes-Picot agreement (May 1916) the area around Ayas was to fall under French administration, and from August 1916 the British agreed to the French training Armenian volunteers on Cyprus for the purpose of attacking Armenian Cilicia.  [However they were eventually deployed to Palestine]
The Ottomans no doubt had intelligence on this and should have been actively taking steps to defend this coast line.
Cyprus was an intelligence sieve during the war, primarily because it was under the Colonial Office rather than the Foreign Office and the British High Commissioner there took a very independent view of security, much to the distaste of the authorities in Cairo and those in intelligence working with the Army and the Royal Navy.
[see https://www.jstor.org/stable/26098479 ]

edit to add - Sorry but that link seems not to work, however it refers to 'British Military Intelligence in Cyprus during the Great War' by Andrekos Varnava, Flinders University, Australia

Michael,
Many thank´s you for continuing to try to find sources.

The above pictured German source stated that this (possible 10.5 cm battery) was
only installed in October 1917, and then probably only remained there until the end
of the war. This means that you should only search for other sources in this time
phase.

From October 1917, the Palestinian Front and the forces in Mesopotamia approached
more and more. Since I am not sure which front is responding to this, I have to look
through both areas.

Since I still promise myself the most in the Turkish primary sources, I downloaded
the three books below. Fortunately, these can also be copy & past, and with this
more or less good translated. Maybe I will find something?

The First World War for Turkey, Iran-Iraq Front 1914 - 1918, Volume 3, Part II
https://www.msb.gov.tr/Content/Upload/Docs/askeritariharsiv/62- bdh_iran_irak_cephe_1914-1918.pdf

The First World War for Turkey, Iran-Iraq Front 1914 - 1918, Volume 3 (Part I?)
https://www.msb.gov.tr/Content/Upload/Docs/askeritariharsiv/116-birinci_dunya_iranirakcephesi(1914-1918).pdf

The First World War for Turkey, Sinai-Palestine Front, from the beginning of
the war to the end of the second Gaza fighting, Volume 4, Part II
https://www.msb.gov.tr/Content/Upload/Docs/askeritariharsiv/birinci_dunya_harbi_sina_filistin_harbin_baslangici_ikinci_gazze_sonunakadar-c4-k2.pdf

Regards Holger

 

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

A minor book maybe

15	World War I, Turkish Air Operation C.9

Page 124 has the 4th Air Company and its operations around that area

Not much there, but does mention the 23rd Div holding that area in 1916-17 before the 41st Div arrived

S.B

 

[Holger Kotthaus]

10 hours ago, stevenbecker said:

Mate,

A minor book maybe

15	World War I, Turkish Air Operation C.9

Page 124 has the 4th Air Company and its operations around that area

Not much there, but does mention the 23rd Div holding that area in 1916-17 before the 41st Div arrived

S.B

 

I also downloaded it and found the following on page 207:

"6. Air operations and activities in the Iskenderun Gulf region:
The connection of the 3rd Army with the Motherland was made through railways.
The most important region of the road is IU, the part in Adana that passes close to
Iskenderun. This place was very close to the shores of the Gulf of Iskenderun, which
was a good landing area. For this reason, the Commander-in-Chief gave great
importance to Adana and İskenderun regions. There was news that the enemy would
launch a landing in Iskenderun. In case the Iskenderun region falls to the enemy, the
transportation lines of both the 4th Army and the 6th and 2nd Armies will be
destroyed.
[ ... ]
The main base of an enemy landing in Iskenderun could have been the island of
Cyprus. The 4th Airplane Company was transferred to Adana to explore these island
ports and then to Silikfe to benefit from the range of the aircraft.
[ ... ]
However, since the available land planes were not capable of reconnaissance, an
Albatros C. II reconnaissance plane with a 160-horsepower Mercedes engine was
given in May 1917, and air reconnaissance around the island of Cyprus began on
June 16, 1917.
[ ... ]
In this regard, the possibility of a landing in Iskenderun and the degree of accuracy
of this news received from Alraans had to be investigated and a final decision had to
be made accordingly."

I expect some further information from the book below, since it covers exactly
the time period and the area in which the battery is said to have been present.
Maybe a few referenced; - maybe even photos?

A Port City in the Eastern Mediterranean: Iskenderun (1914-1919)
Dogu Akdeniz'de Bir Liman Kenti: Iskenderun (1914-1919)
https://www.amazon.com/Dogu-Akdenizde-Bir-Liman-Kenti/dp/6053184381

Of course I don't expect as result, a photo like this below, or any remaining parts
from the present time. But I still assume that it must be, at least, a concrete
foundation. A gun of this size is difficult to place on wooden planks (only exception
GEA, Kahe, March 1916), and certainly not in the sand. Furthermore, it was a
relatively quiet area at that time and the nearby Baghdad Railway Link offered the
good opportunity to supply the necessary building material.

Concrete gun emplacement with 10.5 cm Krupp QF Navy Guns for coastal defense

Source: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/The_Capture_of_Zeebrugge%2C_October_1918_Q7147.jpg

Regards Holger

 

Edited 25 September by Holger Kotthaus

[michaeldr]

15 minutes ago, Holger Kotthaus said:

The main base of an enemy landing in Iskenderun could have been the island of
Cyprus. The 4th Airplane Company was transferred to Adana to explore these island
ports and then to Silikfe to benefit from the range of the aircraft.
[ ... ]
However, since the available land planes were not capable of reconnaissance, an
Albatros C. II reconnaissance plane with a 160-horsepower Mercedes engine was
given in May 1917, and air reconnaissance around the island of Cyprus began on
June 16, 1917

The following may be of interest; it is from the previously referred to 'British Military Intelligence in Cyprus during the Great War' by Andrekos Varnava, Flinders University, Australia 
see page 364 - 
“... from about mid-1916 to October 1917 there was significant enemy (mostly German) submarine and especially aeroplane activity around Cyprus. … … The Central Powers were probably looking for British and French troop concentrations and later for the French-run camp for Armenian volunteers, since numerous aeroplanes flew over it. Only on one occasion were bombs reported to have been dropped: on 25th October 1917 near the Ottoman prisoner of war camp and near the wireless station, cutting the line.”