Discharge after GSW

[Paul E]

I am researching my Grandfather's WW1 service in the Royal Fusiliers. He joined up in November 1915 and apart from a period recovering from Trench Fever he served through to 29 July 1917 when he was wounded at the Battle of Passchendaele. Luckily his records have survived. I have a question about them; after being wounded he was posted to the Royal Fusiliers Depot on 3 October 1917. The notes on his record is that he was discharged on 9 August 1918, being no longer physically fit for war service. Is it normal for discharge to be so long after his injury? I imagine there was so much going on that he was effectively placed on reserve at home pending his formal discharge being decided, does that sound right? 

[Pat Atkins]

I'd guess it might be about a man remaining "on the books" while convalescing, but in matters procedural, I'd seek out @FROGSMILE's wisdom.

[FROGSMILE]

4 hours ago, Paul E said:

….The notes on his record is that he was discharged on 9 August 1918, being no longer physically fit for war service. Is it normal for discharge to be so long after his injury? I imagine there was so much going on that he was effectively placed on reserve at home pending his formal discharge being decided, does that sound right? 

I think your conclusion is quite likely.  Regiments held on to men who they valued (an important point) even when they were going through long recoveries, as there was often a square hole requiring a square peg where fitness was less demanding.  However, in the period approaching the Armistice there was much less reluctance to let men go who were no longer likely to be needed.

Edited 18 September , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

2 hours ago, Paul E said:

after being wounded he was posted to the Royal Fusiliers Depot on 3 October 1917.

I'm sure you're aware that the posting to the Depot was purely an administrative one for pay, discipline and budgeting purposes and to get him off the ration strength of his old battalion so that he could be backfilled.. He wasn't physically at the depot, and the posting normally occurs on the first day back in the UK after being medically evacuated. Although a length of time for recovery wouldn't have been known at that time, it would be presumed to be months, if at all, rather than days.

After his initial emergency treatment at a main Hospital he would then be likely to be farmed out to a network of nearby VAD \ Red Cross Hospitals, where his progress would be monitored, and in the event that he deterioated he could be re-admitted.

There are then various loops he could have gone through - he may have gone for physio or a convalescent centre before the medical profession decided they had done as much for him as possible and recommended either he be honourably discharged from the army, no longer physically fit for war service, or whether he should be considered for further service - albeit might be home service only.

The Army was reluctant to let men go at this stage, and you certainly come across one-eyed \ one armed individuals serving with Labour Corps Companys in a Theatre of War and alongside them would be others suffering from health conditions that probably up to 1916 would have seen them medically discharged. So shall we say the Army Medical Service was erring on the side of caution when it came to making decision about discharge in the hope that a little bit of refresher training, physical as much as soldiering, would allow their patient to be able to play some role in the Army.

You haven't said who your grandfather was, (and I don't have subscription access to Ancestry \ Fold 3 \ FindMyPast, so couldn't see them anyway), but does it not give any details of where he was in the UK after his medical repatriation and treatment in hospital - some kind of "Command Depot" is a favourite one -or if he was posted to a home service only Battalion of his Regiment. Both locations would have a regime designed to build up the strength \ endurance of the individual along with an assessment of whether they were likely to be fit for home service only, overseas but not frontline and overseas frontline and an estimate of how long it might take to get to that level of fitness.

Factors to bear in mind would be that while he was receiving hospital treatment an individual that appears to be making a decent recovery could suffer a post-operative infection, or just pick up an illness that was going the rounds - hospitals do tend to be full of sick people!

Additionally the standards applied for being fit for front-line service were regularly being lowered, which knocked on to the standard for non-front-line, so an individual might not have got any better, but they were now of a standard that they were no longer being considered for discharge. A Medical Officer working in such an environment might have had one eye to the future when making a recommendation as to whether or not to discharge.

And even if your grandfather got to the convalecent \ re-training stage, there was always the risk of contagious disease infection, (and that's even before we consider Spanish flu) or accidental injury that could have set back a recovery from a wounding or made it clear that recovery was unlikely. I'm slowly working my way through the Silver Badge Records of the Norfolk Regiment and have already come across a couple of individuals posted to a home-based battalion, apparently having made a full recovery and commencing physical trainining, only for latent issues to manifest themselves.

Hope that helps,
Peter

[Paul E]

Thank you Peter, Pat and Frogsmile for your help. 

I was sort of aware that Depot may not be a place, more of a status, but very uncertain. The discharge papers, which are of course dated August 18 only say "intended place of residence", not giving any actual information about his whereabouts between September 1917 and discharge. Although having said that the Campaign, Medals and Decorations section in his discharge papers says "Home 3.10.17 to 9.8.18", but I took this to mean he wasn't posted overseas (ie BEF) during that period. It also says "Home 14.3.17 to 4.9.17" when the papers show he was in The Welsh Metropolitan War Hospital, Whitchurch near Cardiff, being treated for Trench Fever. 

His injury wasn't very severe, well by the standards of the time. He lost some fingers and the use of one hand, but being a clock maker by trade I expect it was pretty devastating. He was born in Notting Hill, London and enlisted at Chelsea (presumably at the Barracks) in November 1915.  He died in 1934, aged 48, from influenza. He had damaged lungs from the Trench fever I think (some reference to bronchial trouble in the notes), plus contemporary family members say he suffered from the long term effects of being gassed during the war. 

Thanks again for your help

Paul

Edited 18 September , 2023 by Paul E

[FROGSMILE]

On 18/09/2023 at 16:49, Paul E said:

Thank you Peter, Pat and Frogsmile for your help. 

I was sort of aware that Depot may not be a place, more of a status, but very uncertain. The discharge papers, which are of course dated August 18 only say "intended place of residence", not giving any actual information about his whereabouts between September 1917 and discharge. Although having said that the Campaign, Medals and Decorations section in his discharge papers says "Home 3.10.17 to 9.8.18", but I took this to mean he wasn't posted overseas (ie BEF) during that period. It also says "Home 14.3.17 to 4.9.17" when the papers show he was in The Welsh Metropolitan War Hospital, Whitchurch near Cardiff, being treated for Trench Fever. 

His injury wasn't very severe, well by the standards of the time. He lost some fingers and the use of one hand, but being a clock maker by trade I expect it was pretty devastating. He was born in Notting Hill, London and enlisted at Chelsea (presumably at the Barracks) in November 1915.  He died in 1934, aged 48, from influenza. He had damaged lungs from the Trench fever I think (some reference to bronchial trouble in the notes), plus contemporary family members say he suffered from being gassed during the war. 

Thanks again for your help

Paul

Paul, just to be clear, the depot is indeed a place, and every regiment had one as its titular home.  It was a barracks at which the regimental headquarters was located and it had a link with each regiment’s premier reserve battalion, usually the 3rd**.  The depot looked after men on long term sickness from an administrative perspective, regardless of where the individual officer, or man was physically.

So as he moved around between hospital, convalescent establishment, and sick leave, it was the job of the depot, to know where he was and his exact status.  Once fit enough the man would join the 3rd or another reserve Battalion (several more were created during the war) until he was fit enough to be posted back to a front line battalion, which he would then join within a draft of reinforcements.  Alternatively he would, after having appeared before a medical board booked by the depot, be categorised as no longer fit for service and so to be discharged.

**5th in the case of the Royal Fusiliers, which was one of a handful of regiments that had four regular battalions, 1st to 4th.

Edited 4 March by FROGSMILE

[Paul E]

Many thanks for the clarification Frogsmile. 

[PRC]

3 hours ago, Paul E said:

He lost some fingers and the use of one hand,

During the first two years of the war I've come across cases of men who lost one of more of the three central fingers on their dominant hand and who were discharged physically unfit - the loss of grip and particular the loss of the trigger finger or its restricted mobility were seen as rendering them a liability to their comrades. Later on such cases would be retained, and at times it can be quite pathetic to see how the army tried to make use of them rather than release them. But restriction in grip mattered just as much whether you were firing a rifle, driving a vehicle, handling an animal, hitting a nail, digging a trench or holding a pen, so they were pushed from posting to posting until someone saw sense!

4 hours ago, Paul E said:

enlisted at Chelsea (presumably at the Barracks) in November 1915.

Did he serve continuously after that? It's just that from mid-October 1915 the Derby Scheme started - a man could enlist, choose the Regiment \ Corps he wanted to serve in, "serve" for 24 hours and then be sent home to carry on with their civilian employment until called up. It was a last attempt to avoid conscription, and part of the stick was that if conscription had to be introduced, then conscripts would have no choice over which Regiment \ Corps they served with. And the scheme was initially intended to run only until mid-December 1915. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/enlisting-into-the-army/the-group-scheme-derby-scheme/

4 hours ago, Paul E said:

"Home 3.10.17 to 9.8.18"

Possibly the 1918 Absent Voters List may give some clue as to what unit he was serving with - although you would have to know where he called home at that point, (presumably the address discharged to) and then track down if the relevant Electoral Registers have survived. There is a bit more on how the Absent Voters Lists can help on our parent site, The Long, Long Trail. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/finding-soldiers-through-the-1918-absent-voters-lists/

During the war it was very unlikely that any of the Reserve \ Home Service Battalions were physically at the Depot for any length of time. The Long, Long Trail page on the Royal Fusiliers for example shows the Depot at Hounslow, that the 1st - 4th Battalions were Regular Army, the 5th & 6th were Reserve Battalion which on mobilisation of the Reserve in August 1914 moved to their wartime station of Dover, (and later Ireland) and the 7th, while also a Reserve Battalion were at Finsbury in August 1914 but would go to France in 1916.

The other Reserve Battalions can be seen on the Long, Long Trail page https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/royal-fusiliers-city-of-london-regiment/

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

16 hours ago, PRC said:

During the first two years of the war I've come across cases of men who lost one of more of the three central fingers on their dominant hand and who were discharged physically unfit - the loss of grip and particular the loss of the trigger finger or its restricted mobility were seen as rendering them a liability to their comrades. Later on such cases would be retained, and at times it can be quite pathetic to see how the army tried to make use of them rather than release them. But restriction in grip mattered just as much whether you were firing a rifle, driving a vehicle, handling an animal, hitting a nail, digging a trench or holding a pen, so they were pushed from posting to posting until someone saw sense!

Did he serve continuously after that? It's just that from mid-October 1915 the Derby Scheme started - a man could enlist, choose the Regiment \ Corps he wanted to serve in, "serve" for 24 hours and then be sent home to carry on with their civilian employment until called up. It was a last attempt to avoid conscription, and part of the stick was that if conscription had to be introduced, then conscripts would have no choice over which Regiment \ Corps they served with. And the scheme was initially intended to run only until mid-December 1915. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/enlisting-into-the-army/the-group-scheme-derby-scheme/

Possibly the 1918 Absent Voters List may give some clue as to what unit he was serving with - although you would have to know where he called home at that point, (presumably the address discharged to) and then track down if the relevant Electoral Registers have survived. There is a bit more on how the Absent Voters Lists can help on our parent site, The Long, Long Trail. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/finding-soldiers-through-the-1918-absent-voters-lists/

During the war it was very unlikely that any of the Reserve \ Home Service Battalions were physically at the Depot for any length of time. The Long, Long Trail page on the Royal Fusiliers for example shows the Depot at Hounslow, that the 1st - 4th Battalions were Regular Army, the 5th & 6th were Reserve Battalion which on mobilisation of the Reserve in August 1914 moved to their wartime station of Dover, (and later Ireland) and the 7th, while also a Reserve Battalion were at Finsbury in August 1914 but would go to France in 1916.

The other Reserve Battalions can be seen on the Long, Long Trail page https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/royal-fusiliers-city-of-london-regiment/

Cheers,
Peter

I had not meant to imply in the slightest that the Reserve Battalion was at the depot physically, and thought the word ‘link’ rather than located made that clear, but perhaps it didn’t.  The link between the reserve battalion and the depot was very strong in peacetime, but it had long been laid down, certainly since 1908, if not before, that on mobilisation the reserve battalions would move to clearly laid down war stations**.  That duly occurred in 1914, but the link with the depot (the de facto regimental headquarters for every regiment) remained.  I hope that clears things up for Paul E if there was any confusion.

**similarly the Extra Reserve Battalions moved to the stations that they were intended (created) to defend. 

Edited 19 September , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

36 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I had not meant to imply in the slightest that the Reserve Battalion was at the depot physically, and thought the word ‘linked’ rather than located made that clear, but perhaps it didn’t.

Apologies - I thought we were saying the same thing I was just trying to make it more Royal Fusiliers specific.

What I have picked up on over the years when looking at individual service records is memo requests going from hospitals to the relevant records office asking for the medical records to be forwarded, and subsequent memos chasing their return. Similarly the memos from the medical facilities at the end of the treatment goes to the records office with a note to say the man has been granted discharge furlough - but no cc'ing a depot or a Reserve Battalion. Of course they may have received their own memo's directly. So looks on that basis that potentially the tracking later in the war is done via the records office rather than depot \ reserve battalion.

Similarly in the few instances where a copy of the leave furlough slip is held in the record the man is told when the leave is up to report to the Depot, not a specific battalion.

Of course how long he stays at the Depot is the unknown factor. I've seen many a Silver War Badge record that shows a man as discharged from the Regimental Depot, but what survives of the service record shows him with a specific home service battalion and physically elsewhere in the country. The Depot is being referenced in it's administrative sense rather than the physical one.

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

10 hours ago, PRC said:

Apologies - I thought we were saying the same thing I was just trying to make it more Royal Fusiliers specific.

What I have picked up on over the years when looking at individual service records is memo requests going from hospitals to the relevant records office asking for the medical records to be forwarded, and subsequent memos chasing their return. Similarly the memos from the medical facilities at the end of the treatment goes to the records office with a note to say the man has been granted discharge furlough - but no cc'ing a depot or a Reserve Battalion. Of course they may have received their own memo's directly. So looks on that basis that potentially the tracking later in the war is done via the records office rather than depot \ reserve battalion.

Similarly in the few instances where a copy of the leave furlough slip is held in the record the man is told when the leave is up to report to the Depot, not a specific battalion.

Of course how long he stays at the Depot is the unknown factor. I've seen many a Silver War Badge record that shows a man as discharged from the Regimental Depot, but what survives of the service record shows him with a specific home service battalion and physically elsewhere in the country. The Depot is being referenced in it's administrative sense rather than the physical one.

Cheers,
Peter

The army had become so large that administrative procedures certainly had to be tweaked from their prewar norms, but I’d like to see more examples and learn from more case studies the exact way in which that was carried out.  If a man was ‘posted’ to the depot for discharge then he had to physically go there, so it’s a stretch for me to think he could actually be somewhere else entirely and yet ‘discharged from the depot’, it would be a big contradiction for a long standing administrative procedure.  Apart from anything else the de-kitting was traditionally done there, and also the initial processing of documents for discharge to the reserve.  There’s nothing new about that and it was put in train in 1881, when the depots first took on that role as tied to a particular regiment.  Ergo the system had been running for decades by 1914, but there’s no doubt that the depots were overwhelmed and could not cope with the surge in demand in that year.  It’s my understanding though that the two regular battalions retained that relationship with their depot and the 3rd Reserve Battalion throughout the war, a well known example being Lieutenant S Sassoon MC RWF, who twice returned to the 3rd Battalion for the final stages of his recovery from first wounding, and then subsequently [alleged] mental breakdown, before being sent back to a battalion at the front.  Unfortunately so many service records have been lost that it makes it difficult to examine a cross section of the few that have survived for a particular regiment in order to ascertain clearly any differences in administrative arrangements between the TF, the Service Battalions, and the Regulars.  If any forum member has carried out such a study I’d be very interested to learn about it.  The depot and RHQ had a specific function to carry out, and it didn’t cease to do so throughout the war.

Edited 19 September , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Paul E]

14 hours ago, PRC said:

 

Did he serve continuously after that? It's just that from mid-October 1915 the Derby Scheme started - a man could enlist, choose the Regiment \ Corps he wanted to serve in, "serve" for 24 hours and then be sent home to carry on with their civilian employment until called up. It was a last attempt to avoid conscription, and part of the stick was that if conscription had to be introduced, then conscripts would have no choice over which Regiment \ Corps they served with. And the scheme was initially intended to run only until mid-December 1915. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/enlisting-into-the-army/the-group-scheme-derby-scheme/

 

Thank you everyone for your help and interest. 

As far as I can see he did serve continuously, but as you can see from the attached its not very clear. He enlisted into the 1st County of London Yeomanry in October 1915, maybe that was to avoid conscription. As far as I understand it (and I may be completely wrong) this regiment was a training unit and based just outside Dublin (side note if he was there then then he would probably have been involved in the Easter Rising). He was then transferred to the Royal Fusiliers in December 1916 and sent to the Western Front. He seems to have moved battalions several times after that. 

[FROGSMILE]

42 minutes ago, Paul E said:

Thank you everyone for your help and interest. 

As far as I can see he did serve continuously, but as you can see from the attached its not very clear. He enlisted into the 1st County of London Yeomanry in October 1915, maybe that was to avoid conscription. As far as I understand it (and I may be completely wrong) this regiment was a training unit and based just outside Dublin (side note if he was there then then he would probably have been involved in the Easter Rising). He was then transferred to the Royal Fusiliers in December 1916 and sent to the Western Front. He seems to have moved battalions several times after that. 

In theory Paul it suggests that he was already a member of the Territorial Force, set up in 1908 as a home defence organisation.  However, from 1910 it was realised that some men from the TF would be needed to reinforce the regular army for any overseas deployment and volunteers were sought.  Unfortunately there were not enough and most men with families retained their home only status.  Those who didn’t were given a special Imperial Service badge (tablet shaped) worn on the right breast to mark them out and engender pride in their commitment.

When war was declared the few (as a proportion) who had agreed to service overseas became the ‘first line’ for each unit.  Those committed to home only became the ‘second line’ and those volunteers still under training, physically unfit and requiring toughening up (aka hardening), or with other minor ailments became the ‘third line’.

The following is from the LongLongTrail adjunct to this forum:

3/1st County of London (Middlesex - Duke of Cambridge’s Hussars) Yeomanry [i.e. the third line unit].

Formed in April 1915 as a “third line” (training, draft-supplying reserve for the 1/1st and 2/1st) and located at Ranelagh Park.

1916: affiliated to 6th Reserve Cavalry Regiment at Dublin.

Early 191 7: absorbed into 2nd Reserve Cavalry Regiment at the Curragh.

Edited 19 September , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Paul E]

Many thanks Frogsmile. Very interesting. 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Paul E said:

Many thanks Frogsmile. Very interesting. 

It is possible that, just as you suggested, he joined the TF realising that it would commit him to home service only.  Quite a number of men did so, especially the more canny, or those with family commitments and feeling under moral pressure to enlist.  After the Military Service Act (conscription) in 1916 the home service only caveat was swept away for TF and drafts of men were increasingly sent overseas.  By late 1916, early 1917 it was realised that less cavalry and more infantry was required and ever greater numbers of auxiliary mounted units began to be re-roled as infantry, as well as men compulsorily transferred from other arms and corps directly into the infantry.

NB.  He was “embodied” (a legally binding mobilisation) in November 1915, which means he was already a member of the T.F. although his actual enlistment had been not long before.  His record also states that he was “posted” to the depot, which means he physically went there and was subsequently discharged the following year.  The regimental depot was at the Tower of London.

Edited 19 September , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Paul E]

Thanks again Frogsmile. He had a house on the Old Kent Road so pretty convenient for the Tower. 

[FROGSMILE]

21 hours ago, Paul E said:

Thanks again Frogsmile. He had a house on the Old Kent Road so pretty convenient for the Tower. 

ERRATUM.  Something was nagging in my mind and having checked, the depot was still at Hounslow during WW1, but moved to the Tower subsequently.  It would certainly have been a more handy location given his home address.

His units were as follows and make for a quite typical example of how infantry soldiers were moved around in between any sickness, or wounding, that had led to evacuation down the casualty chain:

a. 3/1st County of London Yeomanry (Middlesex, Duke of Cambridge’s Own Hussars).

b. Transferred to Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment) - Territorial Force**.

c. Posted 5th Reserve Battalion Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment).

d. Posted BEF# - 4th Battalion Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment).

e. Posted BEF - 10th Battalion Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment).  Originally raised from London Stockbrokers.

f. Posted to Depot Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment).

g. Posted BEF - 6th Battalion Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment).

h. Posted back to 10th Battalion Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment).

i. Posted 4th Battalion Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment).

j. Evacuated with Gun Shot Wound (fingers, etc.).

k. Posted to Depot Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment).
l. Discharged 1918.

**I’m puzzled that he’s clearly annotated as retaining his Territorial Force status and yet his subsequent units all appear to be regular or war raised battalions.  The Royal Fusiliers had no T.F. units outside of those corralled within the London Regiment (confusingly with its own discrete sequence of numbers duplicating designations 1st to 4th, as used also by the regular battalions).

# each time it refers to BEF (British Expeditionary Force) it meant that he was with a draft of reinforcements disembarking in France and thence to an Infantry Base Depot (IBD).  It was at the IBD, which as the Royal Fusiliers was a very large regiment would probably have been exclusive, that the decision would have been taken as to which battalion he was to be sent to.

Edited 20 September , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Paul E]

Many thanks again Frogsmile for putting it all down so clearly and giving me another piece of the jigsaw with his TF history. Regarding (f) though he was formally posted to the Depot, he was in fact from 14th March 1917 to 26th July 1917 in The Welsh Metropolitan War Hospital in Whitchurch near Cardiff suffering from (presumably severe) Trench Fever. 

Regarding your thoughts about his being posted to regular units even though he was a Territorial I have often wondered whether his profession as a clock maker made him useful to units who may have required those skills for firearms or rangefinding equipment. All speculation of course.  

Edited 20 September , 2023 by Paul E

[FROGSMILE]

47 minutes ago, Paul E said:

Many thanks again Frogsmile for putting it all down so clearly and giving me another piece of the jigsaw with his TF history. Regarding (f) though he was formally posted to the Depot, he was in fact from 14th March 1917 to 26th July 1917 in The Welsh Metropolitan War Hospital in Whitchurch near Cardiff suffering from (presumably severe) Trench Fever. 

Regarding your thoughts about his being posted to regular units even though he was a Territorial I have often wondered whether his profession as a clock maker made him useful to units who may have required those skills for firearms or rangefinding equipment. All speculation of course.  

Yes that makes sense that he was on posted strength for administration whilst at the hospital.

 I’m puzzled about his remaining on TF terms and conditions, but I know that men who enlisted on those terms remained on them even though they became disadvantageous after the Military Service Act.  It’s not impossible that he was useful due to his skills and he could either have assisted the battalion Armourer (a SNCO from the AOC), or he might have been placed on the strength of the battalion domestic pioneer section, but I agree that, that’s all mere speculation.

Edited 20 September , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Matlock1418]

On 18/09/2023 at 11:30, Paul E said:

I am researching my Grandfather's WW1 service in the Royal Fusiliers. He joined up in November 1915 and apart from a period recovering from Trench Fever he served through to 29 July 1917 when he was wounded at the Battle of Passchendaele. Luckily his records have survived. I have a question about them; after being wounded he was posted to the Royal Fusiliers Depot on 3 October 1917. The notes on his record is that he was discharged on 9 August 1918, being no longer physically fit for war service. Is it normal for discharge to be so long after his injury? I imagine there was so much going on that he was effectively placed on reserve at home pending his formal discharge being decided, does that sound right? 

You and other members seem to have covered many possible options and you/they do seem fairly likely be in the right zone.

I researched a CEF man who after a shell wound to his left hand was treated for many months in the UK before they amputated his left little finger and then sent him back to France on a Permanent Base posting [OK he was with the CEF so more to ship him in and more to ship him out again!]  Another CEF man with an apparently more serious left arm injury and grip problem was shipped back to Canada.

As for Thomas Harry THATCHER, perhaps unsurprisingly, his 9-8-18 discharge lead to a disability pension claim

Image thanks to WFA/Fold3

This 27/6 pw from 10-8-18 to 10/9/18 was the 100 disability rate for a pension class V soldier/Pte.  It was not uncommon to give a 100% rate for a short period [though this is pretty short] whilst the longer-term pension matter was sorted out.

M

 

Edited 18 November , 2023 by Matlock1418
PIC credit

[Matlock1418]

On 18/09/2023 at 16:49, Paul E said:

He lost some fingers and the use of one hand, but being a clock maker by trade I expect it was pretty devastating.

I'm reading this as the injuries affecting the same hand [???]

His trade would not really be considered when making the pension award.

In 1918 the Royal Warrant offered a range of disabilty options for hand/finger injuries

From the relevant 1918 guide - for a pension class V soldier/Pte:

• Loss of thumb or of four fingers of right hand = 40% = 11/- pw [1919 = 16/- pw]
• Loss of thumb or of four fingers of left hand or of three fingers of right hand = 30% = 8/3 pw [1919 = 12/- pw]
• Loss of two fingers of either hand = 20% = 5/6 pw [1919 = 8/- pw]

The rate remained at the 1919 level [until 1946 when WW2 veterans seem to have instigated an uplift].

M

[Paul E]

Thanks Matlock1418, very interesting. I believe Thomas lost his left index finger and most of he next finger, however he did maintain his profession to some extent. His death certificate in 1934 gave his trade as Clocks Electrician (Works Foreman). Family verbal history (there is no proof) is that when he died he was about to emigrate to the USA to join a forerunner of IBM called International Time Recording or it's subsequent incarnation. 

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts on this. 

Paul

Edited 6 October , 2023 by Paul E