German and British officers aboard the 'Stambul', March / April 1919

[bierast]

This is one of a series of photos taken by an officer of Saxon IR 415 (212. Inf. Div.). It shows 'the commanding officers of the Stambul', the former German civilian passenger steamer which evacuated I. & II. Batl. / IR 415 (among other units) from Nikolajew / Mykolaiv on the Black Sea on 16th March 1919. The German garrison of the city had been cut off from evacuation by rail since the end of 1918, but eventually succeeded in securing agreement from the local Entente representatives for evacuation by sea (after lengthy negotiation and some goodwill gestures, including gifts of artillery to the French and Greeks in Cherson / Kherson and even some instances of fighting alongside them against the Bolsheviks). The Stambul (together with the Bjelorossia, with many more units of the garrison aboard) initially travelled to Odessa, where it was prepared for the sea voyage. It then passed through the Bosporus and Dardanelles, around the southern coast of Europe (with a coaling stop at Gibraltar) then up via the English Channel to Hamburg, where it finally docked on 17th April 1919.

I believe that the two gentlemen on the left are from the German ship's crew. The third man has a very dark cap band and collar piping, plus what looks like a Saxon reserve cockade; he looks like a Saxon artillery officer, which would be consistent with the fact that 6. Battr. / FAR 279 (also of 212. Inf. Div.) was aboard this ship. Presumably he is the German officer currently on duty as Transportführer, with authority over the embarked troops... though the battalion commanders of IR 415 surely outranked him even if he was the battery commander. I have not yet been able to put a name to him - the reserve cockade, wound badge and EK1 all provide potential clues.

The fourth man must surely be the 'British escort officer' who joined the Stambul at Constantinople. He is mentioned as dealing with a British 'military commission' intent on coming aboard and searching for weapons while the Stambul and accompanying Varna (with III./415 and others aboard) were anchored off Deal on 11th April 1919. I haven't been able to find a name for him as yet.

Can any naval experts add to the above?

Edited 30 April by bierast

[RNCVR]

If it helps the Naval Officer on the right is RNVR, if you enlarge that section of the photo you are able to just make out the square top of his executive curl. 

I would expect his rank would be Lieut RNVR.

[bierast]

14 minutes ago, RNCVR said:

If it helps the Naval Officer on the right is RNVR, if you enlarge that section of the photo you are able to just make out the square top of his executive curl. 

I would expect his rank would be Lieut RNVR.

Thankyou, it's an interesting detail - so both he and the Saxon are reserve officers rather than career members of their respective armed services. The atmosphere between them seems quite cordial, which seems consistent with the escort officer taking pains to persuade the 'military commission' (which held the German ships up at gunpoint) not to bother searching the ships for weapons and thereby delaying the men's homecoming to Germany even longer. I wonder whether he got a copy of this photo? 

The regimental history of IR 415 mentions that the British escort officer left the ship while it was anchored at Orford Ness. For his part, the regimental historian expresses relief at this as it meant that the ship was now "German again" for the final leg of the journey home.

[RNCVR]

1 hour ago, bierast said:

Thankyou, it's an interesting detail - so both he and the Saxon are reserve officers rather than career members of their respective armed services. 

I cannot speak for the German Officers, but yes, the Naval Officer as a Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve officer, likely only entered for hostilities. But RNVR's also existed pre & post war & during 2WW.

[KizmeRD]

If this is a photo taken aboard the Stambul, why then is the name ‘Chio, Hamburg’ written on the bridge-wing life-buoy?

MB

[GreyC]

Hi,

No vessel named CHIO or CHIOS with homeport of Hamburg was registered with Lloyds of London in 1917. I do not have all the necessary resources "on board", to be absolutely certain but think that the ship could be the CEUTA of the Oldenburg-Portugiesische Dampfschiffs-Rhederei. It had to be handed over to the Allies 1918/19 and seems to have been renamed CHIOS. Later it was owned by the HAPAG (1927) and Deutsche Levante Linie (1935) under the name of CHIOS. The OPDR (as well as the HAPAG and the DLL) operated from Hamburg during WW1. The OPDR and the DLL (as well as other shipping companies - like Horn ) supplied vessels for the repatriation of German troops from the Orient. The transport  STAmBUL reached Hamburg 13th April 1919 by the way.

GreyC

Edited 17 September , 2023 by GreyC

[bierast]

15 hours ago, KizmeRD said:

If this is a photo taken aboard the Stambul, why then is the name ‘Chio, Hamburg’ written on the bridge-wing life-buoy?

This puzzled me too! Not being a naval specialist, I wondered whether that might have been the vessel's original name, Stambul (or sometimes Stamboul in the German regimental histories) being its 'nom de guerre' when transferred on paper into Ottoman service. My amateur attempts to research this vessel came up with some mention on this forum of the Stambul being torpedoed at anchor in 1915, which really confused me... There was also a page (which I can no longer find) which identified Stambul as a pre-war commercial vessel which ran a passenger service across the Black Sea.

According to the regimental histories of its units, the only vessels used to transfer remaining elements of Saxon 212. Inf. Div. from Nikolajew / Mykolaiv via Odessa were Stambul (I.& II. / IR 415, 6./279), Sadko (III./415 as far as Constantinople) and Varna (III./415 and some small rear-area units from Constantinople onwards). The rest of the division had managed to evacuate from Ukraine earlier by rail, and reached Saxony piecemeal in December and January.

I have several other photos labeled as having been taken on the Stambul, one of which I am saving for a published article. Here's one entitled "Stambul Mittel und Hinterdeck":

Edited 18 September , 2023 by bierast

[bierast]

14 hours ago, GreyC said:

No vessel named CHIO or CHIOS with homeport of Hamburg was registered with Lloyds of London in 1917. I do not have all the necessary resources "on board", to be absolutely certain but think that the ship could be the CEUTA of the Oldenburg-Portugiesische Dampfschiffs-Rhederei. It had to be handed over to the Allies 1918/19 and seems to have been renamed CHIOS. Later it was owned by the HAPAG (1927) and Deutsche Levante Linie (1935) under the name of CHIOS. The OPDR (as well as the HAPAG and the DLL) operated from Hamburg during WW1. The OPDR and the DLL (as well as other shipping companies - like Horn ) supplied vessels for the repatriation of German troops from the Orient. The transport  STAmBUL reached Hamburg 13th April 1919 by the way.

According to the regimental history of IR 415, the Stambul anchored at Brunsbüttel (near Cuxhaven) on 13th April 1919 and was placed in quarantine. It was allowed to dock at Hamburg on the 17th, reportedly in glorious sunny weather, and was played into the harbour by a naval band in a pinnace. The following photo is said to depict this event, and is reproduced in small and grainy form in the regimental history (as is the above photo of Stambul Mittel und Hinterdeck").

[GreyC]

The photo of the Stambul deck gives a good view of the ship´s funnel with the distinctive marking for the DLL.

The CEUTA of OPDR (ater CHIOS) was handed over to the British authorities on 23rd Sept. 1920, almost 103 years ago today. Only after that day she was renamed CHIOS. The authorities gave the ship to C. A. Stuart & Co of London. 1927 it was then sold as CHIOS to the HAPAG.

 

[KizmeRD]

‘Chios’ named after the island in the Aegean was a much used name for steamers belonging to the Deutsche Levant Line. However the ship of that name that went into the war was twice torpedoed by the British, firstly by one of Ben-my-Chree’s seaplanes (August 1915), then, having beached herself in the Sea of Mamora to avoid sinking, she was spotted by the passing submarine E11 and was once again fired on.
Having now seen photographic evidence which we believe to be from 1919, one might speculate whether Turkish tugs subsequently pulled the damaged Chios off the beach and took her to a shipyard in Constantinople for repairs? Curious, but certainly in need of further research in order to get to the bottom of this. (Could she have been brought back into service and perhaps renamed Stambul?). 
MB

 

 

Edited 18 September , 2023 by KizmeRD

[bierast]

FYI the text on the back of these photos is printed (with a typewriter, by the look of it) in the following format. I have seen other examples from this series online, and believe they may have been 'official' (taken by an officer, authorised by the regimental commander and widely reproduced for members of the regiment - at least after they got home). All known examples with this style of typewritten text on the back are either from Nikolajew (where IR 415 was present from 14th October 1918 until the evacuation) or from the journey home.

[GreyC]

5 hours ago, KizmeRD said:

(Could she have been brought back into service and perhaps renamed Stambul?). 

To put it simply: no.

With compliments from a German colleague in the know.

ss MARIA RICKMERS QHWC
11.10./22.11.1904 Rickmers Reismühlen, Rhederei & Schiffbau AG,
3559/2256 10082/6391 6000 Geestemünde (130)
107,56- 13,75- 8,00- 8,85 m
3fE 590x980x1600/1100 1600 3 13,0 522
Bremer Vulkan, Vegesack 34
(24.11.1904) "Maria Rickmers" wie Werft, Bremerhaven (DEU).
(21.9.1912) AG D L L und Heimathafen nach Hamburg verlegt. September1912 "Stambul" Bremer Dampfer Linie "Atlas” mbH in Hamburg,  31.12.1913 AG D L L. 1.8.1914 in Konstantinopel und an die Türkische Seetransport Div. (Osmanli Seyrisefain Idaresi). November 1914 "Istanbul". 7.12.1917 bei Zonguldak nach der Bombardierung durch russische Seeflugzeuge auf Grundgesetzt, spä ter durch Sturm weiter beschädigt, dann am 21.1.1918 wiedergeborgen und über Istanbul nach Hamburg. 1918 "Stambul". 17.9.1919 transferred into England ownership. The Shipping Controller (J.Westoll), London (GBR). 1920 British Africa Shipping & Coaling Co. Ltd.(Mittchell, Cott Cotts & Co. Ltd.). 1921 "Cape Point" Sun Shippinpg Co.Ltd. (wie vorher), London. 1927 "Angelos L" E. Scarvelis, Chios (GRC).1936 sold via G. Wigham, Richardson & Co. in London. 1937

 

With reagard to CHIOS:

LOUISE 
November/März 1899 Bartram & Sons, Sunderland (172) 
3316/2143 9393/6071 5500 
106,20- 13,61- 7,36- 8,16 m 
3fE 610x1003x1651/1067 1500 2 12,7 430
Dickinson & Sons, Sunderl. 34 (Pas 2) 
(23.3.1899) "Louise" C. Hirschberg, Hamburg (DEU). 7.12.1911 AG D L L.1.6.1912 "Chios". 1 8.1914 im Marmara Meer, an die Türkische 
Seetransport Div. (Osmanli Seyrisefain Idaresi) renamed "Kios"(Chios). 17.8.1915  Dardanellen durch torpedoed by
planes from HMS "Ben My Chree" hit and on fire
during towage to Konstantinopel torpedoed in the bay of
Akbas by  "E 11".

 

GreyC

[KizmeRD]

Thanks GreyC - the lifebuoy in the photo showing the name ‘Chios’ will just have to remain an unexplained oddity.

As previously mentioned, the steamer "Stambul" arrived Hamburg 13.4.1919 (with I. & II. Bat. Sächs. I.R.415 onboard) and the steamer "Varna" arrived in Wilhelmshaven 14.4.1919 (with the III. Bat. Sächs. I.R.415).

Other German freighters known to have been involved in the repatriation of German soldiers from Turkey and the Black Sea after the end of the war include “Etha Rickmers”, “Lilly Rickmers”, “Kerkyra”, “Pathmos”,  “Asgard”, “Akdenis”, and “Rinna Horn”.

MB

 

 

 

[GreyC]

1 hour ago, KizmeRD said:

“Rinna Horn”.

Typo in your source, I am afraid. Correct: MINNA HORN, a family member of the owner of the shipping company.

GreyC

Edited 19 September , 2023 by GreyC

[KizmeRD]

Thank you for the correction Grey C. - I just looked up details of the shipping company and Minna Horn turns out to be the name of the eldest daughter of the founder of the shipping company (Heinrich Christian Horn, Flensburg).

MB

Edited 19 September , 2023 by KizmeRD

[bierast]

6 hours ago, KizmeRD said:

Thanks GreyC - the lifebuoy in the photo showing the name ‘Chios’ will just have to remain an unexplained oddity.

Is it conceivable that some components and fixtures may have been salvaged from the destroyed Chios and reused on Stambul when she was salvaged and refitted in early 1918?

Quote

As previously mentioned, the steamer "Stambul" arrived Hamburg 13.4.1919 (with I. & II. Bat. Sächs. I.R.415 onboard) and the steamer "Varna" arrived in Wilhelmshaven 14.4.1919 (with the III. Bat. Sächs. I.R.415).

Other German freighters known to have been involved in the repatriation of German soldiers from Turkey and the Black Sea after the end of the war include “Etha Rickmers”, “Lilly Rickmers”, “Kerkyra”, “Pathmos”,  “Asgard”, “Akdenis”, and “Rinna Horn”.

Note that there were also other units aboard both the Varna and the Stambul, but my interest is specifically in the Saxons. IR 415 (even with a battalion missing) was nevertheless most definitely the largest single unit to reach Hamburg aboard the Stambul.

The regimental histories of IR 415 and FAR 279 state that the final evacuation of Nikolajew on 16th March 1919 was conducted by the Stambul and the (ex-Russian?) Bjelorossia, with Admiral Hopmann bringing up the rear on the yacht Lukull and a single French cruiser as escort. While the transport ships flew the white flag, Lukull was still defiantly flying the Reichskriegsflagge... at least until they got to Odessa, where the admiral was obliged to take his flag down! At Odessa the ships were prepared for the sea voyage home. There is no subsequent mention of Bjelorossia (which didn't have any units of the Saxon division aboard), but there is a claim later in the IR 415 history that the 'last transport from Nikolajew' (Bjelorossia?) was waylaid en route at Constantinople and the passengers interned under insanitary conditions at Salonika, in breach of the agreement secured with the French prior to the evacuation.

Edited 19 September , 2023 by bierast

[KizmeRD]

6 minutes ago, bierast said:

Is it conceivable that some components and fixtures may have been salvaged from the destroyed Chios and reused on Stambul when she was salvaged and refitted in early 1918?

That’s probably the only reasonable conclusion we can draw.

MB

 

 

 

[charlie2]

2 hours ago, bierast said:

there is a claim later in the IR 415 history that the 'last transport from Nikolajew' (Bjelorossia?) was waylaid en route at Constantinople and the passengers interned under insanitary conditions at Salonika, in breach of the agreement secured with the French prior to the evacuation.

The claim is reiterated in „Die Rückführung des Ostheers“. As well as being interned in unsanitary conditions they were subject to abuse from the French colonial troops. The reason that was given for the internment was that the ships were needed to evacuate a French Division from Odessa which had refused to fight. Unfortunately there are no ships names recorded in the relevant chapter.

Charlie

 

[ORAJAG]

I am very pleased that I have finally found information here about the ship "Stambul". The transport on the "Stambul" in the spring of 1919 played a decisive role in the lives of my ancestors. My mother, now almost 91 years old, wrote down her parents' life story a few years ago. In it, she mentions the crossing in March/April 1919 from Nikolayev in the Crimea to Hamburg! It happened like this:

My great-grandfather Christian Schmidt was a Bessarabian German, his ancestors came from Swabia in southern Germany and emigrated to Bessarabia (now Ukraine) via Poland at the beginning of the 19th century. One of his daughters - my grandmother Anna Schmidt - was born in Tarutino in Bessarabia in 1896. Her family moved to Sevastopol in Crimea around 1918 due to the turmoil of war. It was there that my grandmother met the German occupying soldier Paul Skirde, my grandfather, at the beginning of 1919. It must have been a great love affair, because they married on March 2, 1919 in Nikolayev (the original church marriage certificate still exists). The banns had only been ordered on the same day! They were obviously determined to go to Germany together, and they were in a hurry, as the withdrawal of German troops from the Crimea had already been decided. The witnesses were two non-commissioned officers from my grandfather's unit. My great-grandfather probably agreed to his daughter marrying a German because he wanted to protect her from hardship and hunger and because Germany was held in high esteem by the Bessarabian Germans. 

As my grandmother had no chance of getting a passport and a visa for Germany and women were not allowed to travel on warships, it was decided that my grandmother should travel to Germany secretly in hiding on the troopship "Stambul". Apparently, my grandfather's direct superior and other comrades were in on the plan.

My grandmother told that my grandfather gave her a uniform and a carbine and that she was smuggled onto the "Stambul". (Traditions speak of a "cruiser Stambul", which is obviously not true. It was also said that the crossing took six weeks). The hygienic conditions were terrible, there was hunger, lice and disease. In the port of Tessaloniki, the ship was searched and several women were picked up and taken off the ship. All the soldiers were given strict orders to hand over all the women under threat of punishment. Nevertheless, my grandfather managed to hide his wife, also with the help of his comrades. However, she was discovered by a Lieutenant Schulz shortly before her arrival in Germany. As my grandmother spoke German and my grandfather was able to produce the marriage certificate, there were no consequences. Perhaps the officers also hoped for the intercession of the lower ranks when they arrived in Germany in the post-war confusion. Separate quarters were now set up for my grandmother, and when the ship arrived in Hamburg in April 1919, she left the ship in civilian clothes. 

My mother has the same photos in her possession that are shown here: The one with the four officers and the views of the foredeck and aft deck of the "Stambul", designed as postcards, but without a stamp on the back. Also a view of Therapia (today Tarabya, Istanbul) from the sea. 

There are two further photos from the time of arrival in Hamburg. Both show a group of soldiers on a ship and between them stands my grandmother in a long coat with a fur collar. Unfortunately, there are no superstructures to clearly identify the “Stambul”. 

These pictures are printed in a small book that my mother wrote about her parents. My grandfather's military service record is also still in her possession. He was a radio operator in "Königlich Preußisches Gebirgsjäger-Kommando Nr. 5", later Nr 2. According to the entries, he was stationed in Romania until the armistice in May 1918 and then took part in the occupation of Crimea until March 15, 1919.

My grandparents then lived in Berlin, lost their home due to bombing in November 1943 and moved in with relatives in the countryside, about 70 km north of Berlin. They both lived to be over 80 years old. I grew up in the small town where they lived until they died. 

[ORAJAG]

According to my researches the vessel was from Austrian Lloyd, built in 1910, 3800 tons, built in 1910, damaged in 1918, wrecked in 1924.

 

[bierast]

4 hours ago, ORAJAG said:

I am very pleased that I have finally found information here about the ship "Stambul". The transport on the "Stambul" in the spring of 1919 played a decisive role in the lives of my ancestors. My mother, now almost 91 years old, wrote down her parents' life story a few years ago. In it, she mentions the crossing in March/April 1919 from Nikolayev in the Crimea to Hamburg!

Thankyou for sharing your story - I'm delighted that my research on this rather esoteric subject has given you an insight into your family history! I will PM you privately with a copy of my finished article. I also have dozens of pages of notes, but obviously it's very much from the point of view of the Saxon units I mentioned.

Your grandfather's unit ID is definitely not quite right, because "Gebirgsjäger" is anachronistic WW2 terminology. However the unit number, the "Gebirgs-" (mountain) part and the "radio operator" part all do match with a list of units transported aboard the Stambul which I found some time ago at https://gmic.co.uk/topic/63701-german-units-served-in-ottoman-empire/ I am unsure what the primary source(s) for this listing might be, but I was able to corroborate a lot of it from the Saxon regimental histories and Die Rückführung des Ostheeres. The parts in BOLD have been corroborated from at least one additional source.

I. & II. Batl. / IR 415 (1350 men, Saxons from 212. Inf. Div.)
6. Battr. / FAR 279 (100 men, Saxons from 212. Inf. Div.)
"Elements of" 7. Landwehr-Division (210 men, Württembergers)
Unidentified company / Reserve-Ersatz-Infanterie-Regiment 2 (260 men, Prussians from 215. Inf. Div.)
Fuhrpark Kolonne 267 (80 men, Prussians)
Divisions-Funker-Abteilung 109 and Gebirgs-Funker[-Abteilung?] 2 plus a 'supernumerary radio station' (überplanmäßiger Funker-Station) (40 men total?)
Bäckerei-Kolonne 70 (25 men)
Bäckerei-Kolonne 78 (15 men)
Schlächterei 184 (15 men)
[Feld?]Post[-Station?] 149 (6 men)
Soldatenheim Nikolajew and Soldatenheim Krim (85 men total)

I have checked casualty lists and other references, and have confirmed the existence of a Gebirgs-Funker-Abteilung 2. This would have been a radio detachment equipped for mountain warfare (presumably meaning they had mules for transporting their equipment, and were perhaps outfitted with mountain boots and reinforced trousers). Such units were intended for service in theatres like the Balkans and Italy. The source appears to claim that there were only forty men aboard from two Funker-Abteilungen (each of which was nominally a company-sized formation) and an additional unnumbered radio station put together, which tends to suggest that none of these units were present in their entirety aboard the Stambul.

NB: There was such a thing as a Funker-Kommando, but I've not found any mention of a "Gebirgs-Funker-Kommando". My guess is that the unit in question changed its designation at some point from Funker-Kommando to Gebirgs-Funker-Abteilung.

The part about your grandmother having a carbine alongside her men's uniform to go aboard the Stambul can't be quite right. According to the history of IR 415, only the officers and the designated Schiffswache (the ship's watch, designated with maintaining order) were allowed to come aboard armed, according to the terms dictated by the Entente. Possibly there is confusion here with the previous voyage from the Crimea to Nikolajew (many units were initially transported both from Crimea and from the Ottoman Empire to Nikolajew, with the intention of onward transport to Germany by rail - an option which was then closed off around the end of 1918 due to increasingly widespread fighting between Ukrainian nationalists, Makhnovite anarchists and Bolsheviks). It's entirely possible that this initial voyage to the Crimea was also aboard the Stambul, and that this is how the ship came to be anchored in Nikolajew harbour when it was needed in March 1919.

The same source (IR 415) also states that nurses and German civilians were allowed to board the Stambul first, so at least for this final evacuation voyage there was no outright ban on carrying women. However those individuals would presumably have been holders of German passports whose presence was officially authorised. 

Quote

In the port of Tessaloniki, the ship was searched and several women were picked up and taken off the ship. All the soldiers were given strict orders to hand over all the women under threat of punishment. Nevertheless, my grandfather managed to hide his wife, also with the help of his comrades. However, she was discovered by a Lieutenant Schulz shortly before her arrival in Germany. As my grandmother spoke German and my grandfather was able to produce the marriage certificate, there were no consequences. Perhaps the officers also hoped for the intercession of the lower ranks when they arrived in Germany in the post-war confusion. 

Any such orders would have been those of the Entente representatives, passed down by German officers who had no choice in the matter and (going by what I read in the unit histories) would have been sympathetic to your grandmother's plight. The sources all express deep affection for the German "Kolonisten" in Crimea and Ukraine, and a profound sense of guilt and regret that the occupation had given them a false hope and then left them at the mercy of the Bolsheviks and Makhnovites. There is indeed some entirely approving mention in these sources of "Kolonisten" being smuggled back to Germany during the earlier rail evacuation. Therefore I suspect that once there was no longer any danger of discovery by the Entente, even the most stringent of the officers aboard the Stambul would gladly have acted as Ltn. Schulz did. 
 

Edited 28 April by bierast

[KizmeRD]

5 hours ago, ORAJAG said:

According to my researches the vessel was from Austrian Lloyd, built in 1910, 3800 tons, built in 1910, damaged in 1918, wrecked in 1924.

I think the vessel that transported the German troops home was more correctly the similarly named Deutsche-Levant Line steamer Stambul ex Maria Rickmers (3559 gt built 1904) which subsequently transferred into English ownership, September 1919.

If you look at the smoke stack you can clearly identify the DLL funnel markings.

MB

 

[GreyC]

That is correct. As the DLL had its HQ in Hamburg, the voyage ended in Hamburg on 13th April 1919.

GreyC