ersatz Posted 9 September Share Posted 9 September I'm hoping the membership can help me with information on this Sawback Knife. The unit is light weight and nicely balanced. The blade itself measures 11.25 inches, with an overall length of 17 inches. It has a cutting edge on top with sharp double sawteeth on the bottom. There is a solid brass cross guard with the top quillon having a hook to secure the retaining strap. Unit marking is 3.J.25. with WK on the ricasso. I believe the frog is riveted to the scabbard. Scabbard throat has a metal guide to protect the leather from the sharp sawteeth. A well made piece. I feel the wood handle closely resembles the heavy Austro-Hungarian Short Sword. Any & All input would be very much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 9 September Share Posted 9 September Ersatz, Very nice-looking (and wicked-looking) piece. Presumably, W K = Weyersburg Kirschbaum, so made in Germany; other than that, I am clueless! Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 10 September Share Posted 10 September (edited) WK is stamped per single stamp, so more real is the owner or other stamp, with WKC has it nothing probably. Personally i saw it on GU as presented probably by You or other, it more looks like a tool , for me the stamp on crosspiece is strange, as this should be a sawback tool in first purpose not a combat weapon. The sawback is effective made, and usable, not to compare the KS98 weakly tooth sawback. It would be nice to present the cutting edge as this looks too thick for cut. Edited 10 September by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ersatz Posted 10 September Author Share Posted 10 September (edited) Thank you JMB and AndyBsk for your comments. ANDY - I am not familiar with your reference to GU. What is it? I myself haven't posted this blade anywhere. I would like to view the presentation if you would refer me to the source. I've posted three additional photos featuring the blade itself. The sawback blade cuts a clean 5/16" kerf with ease and the knife edge has a nice factory ground cutting edge. I am curious of the Unit marking ......... If this is an Austro-Hungarian piece, would the " J " refer to " Jager "? Edited 10 September by ersatz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 10 September Share Posted 10 September (edited) Maybe someone other added it on Gunboard forum, this was the shortage for, i assume the blade is not for cut, as the edge is too short for me. The edge on last picture is for me too shallow, i believe it was not period there but added by someone, You should add picture of the edge from upper position and measure the thickness of the blade edge, the handle even You believe is a austro inspired, is probably not, 3J would mean by germans 3I also Infanterie as the I was not used as could mistakly determined as romanian I nummer. I believe this is a specialised tool, maybe for some medicals, or other branch not used by normal soldier. The scabbard is upgraded for a sawback blade, that would not damage the mouth. so from this i dont believe this had other function as the sawback tool. I would proof remove the leather buffer, maybe something is under it, some stamps or so. Edited 10 September by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ersatz Posted 10 September Author Share Posted 10 September I did try removing the leather buffer, however, I stopped as it would have compromised the entire leather piece. I know it doesn't mean much but I did find a #12 stamped on the face of the hook quillon (serial #12 ??? ). I did see that the frog was held to the scabbard by a rivet which also held the metal sawtooth guide. Thickness of the sawback is 5/16". The scabbard itself has me wondering that it is not for field use as the scabbard and frog don't appear rugged enough for the field, also the brass drag. Still puzzled and will pursue more research, etc. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 11 September Share Posted 11 September The scabbard looks like hunter or similar purpose item, yes the 12 could be serial number. The owner could be a soldier of 3.J.Regiment, similar stamps was observed on dress bayonets too, doesnt mean it was service weapon. Anyway the sawback is excellent made,same as the scabbard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert.f Posted 12 September Share Posted 12 September Hello, maybe its the sword of the Austro-Hungarian fire brigade ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 13 September Share Posted 13 September This is too short for a sword.The scabbard and system of blade securing in bard s atypical for AU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert.f Posted 14 September Share Posted 14 September Youre right , too short for a sword. what remains is production for the forester-hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 October Share Posted 10 October And not obviously intended as a penetrating / stabbing weapon. I reckon a tool of some kind. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman Posted 11 October Share Posted 11 October Possible a Faschinen Messner (Fascine Knife) issued to troops to cut wood/brush for field fortifications It was issued to a NCO in each company for that purpose They were recalled and saw tooth ground off because of accusations that is was too gruesome a weapon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafal1971 Posted 14 October Share Posted 14 October Just search for a moment on the Internet and the mystery is solved Photo is from this page Pruning | Virtual Museum (oldgardentools.co.uk) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert.f Posted 14 October Share Posted 14 October 7 hours ago, Rafal1971 said: Just search for a moment on the Internet and the mystery is solved Photo is from this page Pruning | Virtual Museum (oldgardentools.co.uk) mystery solved ?, you mean the saw shape ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 14 October Share Posted 14 October As mentioned this is a saw tool, anyway i doubt it would have so expensive scabbard by normal garden using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert.f Posted 15 October Share Posted 15 October The shape of the saw is similar to that of the Swiss Army knife woodsaw, maker WK, meybe Wenger ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 15 October Share Posted 15 October (edited) Already mentioned the stamp is done per single stamp, so not real a maker, and Wenger used only W on bayonets not K. W is here doubble stamped but K not. Edited 15 October by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minenwerfer Posted 15 October Share Posted 15 October I've seen a variation of this type of personal saw year's ago in the Heeresgeschichtliches Museum in Vienna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 31 October Share Posted 31 October (edited) This sawback knife/tool is reported in Eickhorn catalog of Blankewaffen in production bis 1933 under number 1374, unfortunally i dont have the description, it was in part of german Sidearms. Edited 1 November by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ersatz Posted 1 November Author Share Posted 1 November Thank you Andy for your continuing efforts to help. Much appreciated ! I will try to unearth further details from the referenced source. My best, TED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 1 November Share Posted 1 November I asked for more info one of the owners, but i assume there is not much more avialable in the catalog, evident is it was in german chapter, also probably no real austrian connection. There are other dress sidearm listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ersatz Posted 3 November Author Share Posted 3 November Hello Andy, I am certainly impressed by your investigative abilities. I also appreciate your thoughtfulness in helping a fellow collector. Thank you very much for going that extra mile my friend ! ! ! GOOD COLLECTING, Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 3 November Share Posted 3 November (edited) Thanks for nice words Ted, it was a lucky hit, as i was searching for long blade KS98 and i found the piece in one row of this catalog, and could remember that was researched some weeks ago, unfortunally the catalog doesnt have any comments avialable, i asked already the owner for more info, but prior this time no response, anyway it was with various dress sidearms, i assume it could be a Jaeger or Pioneer dress Sidearm when 3J on the piece stamped?, maybe used for short time only? The design is very well with very nice done scabbard. WK could be initials of the owner. When it would be maker marked, we could destine more precise the time frame. Edited 3 November by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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