Period that this style of RA O/R Dress Uniform was worn.

[4thGordons]

I have just purchased what I believe to be an Other Ranks Dress Uniform for the Royal Field (or Costal?) Artillery.

It is lined with white material, unmarked (but has a London Tailor label) and in need of some buttons and a bit of TLC (careful cleaning and replacing 4 or 5 missing buttons, reattaching one of the epaulettes). It has a nice pair of matched trousers (although the foot straps are very fragile/torn.

Had this style been phased out prior to WWI or was it still in use. My limited reading seems to suggests it *may* have been phased out as early as  1902 (if so, probably outside the forum) but perhaps it persisted longer?

 

Secondary question the collar seems to be pierced for collar insignia (I assume a RA Grenade badge) the piercing seems to indicate the badge would be worn "vertically" (ie up and down) whereas illustrations (artistic not photo) seem to show the badges horizontally (along the collar as it were)

and further to this would the grenade have been bullion/wire (or was that just for officers) with a standard gilding metal one for ORs

all this assuming I have identified the item correctly!

Thanks in advance

Chris 

Edited 31 August , 2023 by 4thGordons

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, 4thGordons said:

I have just purchased what I believe to be an Other Ranks Dress Uniform for the Royal Field (or Costal?) Artillery.

It is lined with white material, unmarked (but has a London Tailor label) and in need of some buttons and a bit of TLC (careful cleaning and replacing 4 or 5 missing buttons, reattaching one of the epaulettes). It has a nice pair of matched trousers (although the foot straps are very fragile/torn.

Had this style been phased out prior to WWI or was it still in use. My limited reading seems to suggests it *may* have been phased out as early as  1902 (if so, probably outside the forum) but perhaps it persisted longer?

 

Secondary question the collar seems to be pierced for collar insignia (I assume a RA Grenade badge) the piercing seems to indicate the badge would be worn "vertically" (ie up and down) whereas illustrations (artistic not photo) seem to show the badges horizontally (along the collar as it were)

and further to this would the grenade have been bullion/wire (or was that just for officers) with a standard gilding metal one for ORs

all this assuming I have identified the item correctly!

Thanks in advance

Chris 

The 9-button type upper garment was the full dress tunic for the Royal Field Artillery and Royal Garrison Artillery on Home Service until the outbreak of war in 1914.  Overseas it was replaced by the 5-button, or 7-button frock.

However, there was undoubtedly less usage between 1902 and 1914, with the exception of a special and concerted effort for troops attending the Coronation in 1910.  The reduction was largely to do with the widespread issue of drab service dress as the universal working and field uniform for all except guard duty, walking-out-dress, and ceremonial.

Collar insignia was the universal grenade introduced in 1881, and widely used, including in the Royal Engineers, the infantry (Fusiliers) and even the Grenadier Guards, as well as equivalents around the Dominions and dependent Territories.

In 1902 both the collar and skirt join were squared off at the front rather than curved.  Also slashed flaps replaced two vertical lines of cord braid on the back of the skirt.  In 1904 the white waistbelt was replaced with a coloured ‘girdle’ similar to a modern stable belt for undress, including walking-out.  It was fastened by three brass olivettes.

The 1902 cut off in the images below is purely marking the death of the old Queen.  The insignia then changed to feature a Tudor crown but otherwise remained the same for the regular army.

Edited 31 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[4thGordons]

Thanks for that comprehensive reply. Excellent.

I shall begin searching my various tins for appropriate buttons (they are missing from the rear skirt) - and browsing retailers looking for collar devices.

Chris

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, 4thGordons said:

Thanks for that comprehensive reply. Excellent.

I shall begin searching my various tins for appropriate buttons (they are missing from the rear skirt) - and browsing retailers looking for collar devices.

Chris

 

 

Both should be relatively easy to find.  Much insignia of the patterns you need was produced during WW1, when the expansion was huge.

Edited 31 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[4thGordons]

5 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Both should be relatively easy to find.  Much insignia of the patterns you need was produced during WW1, when the expansion was huge.

Thanks - yes I am fairly sure I have the buttons required (although they may not be the same maker)

It looks like the collars on mine are more squared off than the earliest ones illustrated but less square than some - I suppose this is a minor tailoring variation.

When was the general grenade device replaced by the more elongated version with "Ubique" below it?

The insignia I have been able to find for sale online all have one mounting point on the grenade and one on the flame so  I am still slightly puzzled by the holes in the collar which are one above the other rather than "along" the collar as would be needed to mount the devices as shown in the illustrations/photographs (with the bomb to the middle and flames outside)

[FROGSMILE]

9 hours ago, 4thGordons said:

Thanks - yes I am fairly sure I have the buttons required (although they may not be the same maker)

It looks like the collars on mine are more squared off than the earliest ones illustrated but less square than some - I suppose this is a minor tailoring variation.

When was the general grenade device replaced by the more elongated version with "Ubique" below it?

The insignia I have been able to find for sale online all have one mounting point on the grenade and one on the flame so  I am still slightly puzzled by the holes in the collar which are one above the other rather than "along" the collar as would be needed to mount the devices as shown in the illustrations/photographs (with the bomb to the middle and flames outside)

Here is another example of the 7-button garment you have.  The collar was cut square whereas the previous collar (for all patterns) was cut with a curve that you can see in the B&W photo above (also corners of skirt).  It’s the overlay of the yellow worsted russia braid on your sample that is a little less angular compared with that enclosed.  According to its label this example was made at the War Office owned Royal Army Clothing Factory in Pimlico, which closed for good in 1934.

The collar badge with UBIQUE was adopted in 1926 and from that point fitted with a slant so that the honour wasn’t laying on its side**.  It suggests that your garment was used between the wars when general issue of full dress no longer existed.  The collar badge was then worn completely upright (vertically) on soldiers plain blue serge frocks (aka patrol jackets - later No1 Dress).

Officers and regimental bandsmen, however, continued to wear collar insignia in the more conventional way along with the traditional 9-button tunics.

**it should have 7-points, the RE pattern that looks very similar has 9-points.

Edited 1 September , 2023 by FROGSMILE