Frog, Bayonet, GS - a hole in the back by the belt loop?

[MrEd]

Hello all,

I have come across 3 bayonet frogs in the General service bayonet frog pattern (or pattern 1882 frog?) - 3 of them have all had an identical small hole in the back, just by the belt loop part (I only have photos of 2 of them sorry)

1 is obviously a nail hole from previous display but the others appear to be a deliberate hole that perhaps aligns with something.

I wonder if it is to ‘anchor’ the frog in place when just a belt and frog is worn for some sort of parade or similar duty? On a stud or hook?

I have only seen it on brown leather frogs not the buff ones (but that doesn’t mean anything)

Does anyone know what it is or was for? Photos below and the karkee web link
 

Here is a photo from karkee web that shows this hole http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1903/components/1903_associated_equipment.html

 

Here is another  (which I think is a more modern make - possibly even repro)

 

Finally one that has what looks like a nail hole for display??

 

[MrEd]

Edit - I found another couple of examples online

 

Edited 31 August , 2023 by MrEd

[Dave66]

The majority of my general service type frogs have similar holes….including one volunteer with a steel buckle, I also have four buff general service and three of the four have them…I think some of my P14 frogs also have similar.

I was always under the impression it was to secure the frog to stop it sliding round but using what I don’t know….but I’m sure someone else will provide us with the answer.

Pic below shows two GS Mk1, and a Mk2 adapted for the P1907 HQ.

Dave.

[paulowen]

I understood is was to allow the belt hook on the GS tunic to lock into the hole, and so prevent slipping.

Incidentally, any suggestions for the unit marking on the frog? 'L'Y and possibly a '15' or '16'. LOndon Yeomanry?

 

Thanks

Paul

[MrEd]

Yes I wondered if it was for the uniform belt hook - I haven’t actually tried that out but I shall do so at the weekend

[MrEd]

Tried it out, it fits, but is quite a struggle to push through the hole tbh,

not sure it lines up with the belt particularly well. In that the belt is wider than the available space between the hole and the top of the belt loop.

It could work using the belt hooks as a locator but the belt would not be located on them at the same time (but could easily run in front) so I don’t know tbh.

 

 

[paulowen]

No, I can't really get to work either!

And it's not as if the frog is likely to slide around much anyway, expecially if it's webbing with its inherent 'grip.' Possibly it's more of an issue with leather.

The fact remains that these holes are seen a lot on both leather and webbing frogs and the belt-hook explanation is the only one I've ever heard.

[MrEd]

It does seem plausible tbh

[Chasemuseum]

Japanese Army tunics of WW2 had a tab and button to support the bayonet and belt. 

 

The need to support the weight of a bayonet and to stop it sliding on the belt was a well-recognized problem.

[MrEd]

7 hours ago, Chasemuseum said:

Japanese Army tunics of WW2 had a tab and button to support the bayonet and belt. 

 

The need to support the weight of a bayonet and to stop it sliding on the belt was a well-recognized problem.

Was there any ‘official’ British army solution? The ‘hole in the back of the frog’ method seems a bit haphazard and variable?