Ypres Casualties

[mikereme]

Hello Everyone,

I am researching Ypres and the battles that took place n the Salient.  I am aware that there are 90000 missing as per the Menen Gate and Tyn Cot Cemetery.

Could someone give me an estimate of how many Soldiers Both Allied and Germans were killed during it 4 years of defence/offensives etc.

 

I thank you n anticipation  

[DavidOwen]

Have you tried Statistics of the military effort etc.? Statistics of the military effort of the British Empire during the Great War, 1914-1920 : Great Britain. War Office : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

One example from the results:

[mikereme]

Brilliant thank you so much

[phil andrade]

Big variations according to how the Salient is defined.

 It might be the Flanders Salient, which extended down into Artois , or French Flanders, or it might be a more strictly Belgian remit.

 

The Germans record that there are more than 130,000 of their soldiers interred in cemeteries in Flanders from 1914-18, but emphasise that another ninety thousand of their dead there remain unrecovered for burial.

The British Empire attribute about 160,000 dead to the Ypres Salient, but that figure would swell to about a quarter of a million if the wider Flanders remit were applied.

 

Add on tens of thousands of French, and thousands of Belgians, and you’re in the realm of half a million., perhaps significantly more.

 

Phil

Edited 28 August , 2023 by phil andrade

[mikereme]

45 minutes ago, phil andrade said:

Big variations according to how the Salient is defined.

 It might be the Flanders Salient, which extended down into Artois , or French Flanders, or it might be a more strictly Belgian remit.

 

The Germans record that there are more than 130,000 of their soldiers interred in cemeteries in Flanders from 1914-18, but emphasise that another ninety thousand of their dead there remain unrecovered for burial.

The British Empire attribute about 160,000 dead to the Ypres Salient, but that figure would swell to about a quarter of a million if the wider Flanders remit were applied.

 

Add on tens of thousands of French, and thousands of Belgians, and you’re in the realm of half a million., perhaps significantly more.

 

Phil

Hi Phil, thank you nothing is easy during research... learnt something with the Flanders Salient.  My query would be the Ypres Salient I believe tge eight square miles... but interesting yo say the least 

[AOK4]

1 hour ago, phil andrade said:

Big variations according to how the Salient is defined.

 It might be the Flanders Salient, which extended down into Artois , or French Flanders, or it might be a more strictly Belgian remit.

 

The Germans record that there are more than 130,000 of their soldiers interred in cemeteries in Flanders from 1914-18, but emphasise that another ninety thousand of their dead there remain unrecovered for burial.

The British Empire attribute about 160,000 dead to the Ypres Salient, but that figure would swell to about a quarter of a million if the wider Flanders remit were applied.

 

Add on tens of thousands of French, and thousands of Belgians, and you’re in the realm of half a million., perhaps significantly more.

 

Phil

Phil,

Some 130.000 Germans are buried on German cemeteries in Belgium. Several thousand of these did not die anywhere near Ypres. On the other hand, several thousand that did die in the Ypres Salient are nowadays buried in France.

Jan

 

[phil andrade]

In the Ypres Salient itself, there’s a figure for British Empire casualties citing 160,000 killed and 410,000 wounded. That’s a challenging figure: no mention of missing, no reference to died of wounds. The number cited as killed might include deaths from all causes. If you stick with CWGC you’ll find about 190,000 dead for the whole of Belgium, but many wounded and gassed were evacuated to France or Blighty, where they subsequently perished, and are commemorated elsewhere.

 

I would repose confidence in the analysis of Martin Middlebrook, who wrote a book about the Somme battlefields, and stated :

 

” But the Somme deaths do not quite come up to the numbers who died around Ypres, where approximately 250,000 British died, though over a nine- month-longer period of the war. “. 
 

The Somme Battlefields,

page 353.

 

Phil

[phil andrade]

Just the three official Battles of Ypres tell furnish their statistics :

 

First Battle, October November 1914, 58,000 casualties.

 

Second Battle, April May 1915, 60,000

 

Third Battle, July 31 to November 12 1917, 245,000.

 

Add on the relentless fighting that rages right through those years, including murderous flare ups like Messiness in June 1917, Mount Sorrel in June 1916, and Hooge in July 1915, and there are hundreds of thousands more to be added.  The “ normal wastage “ of trench warfare for several years. Lord knows. Suggest that between one quarter and one third of all battle casualties were fatal, allow for the best part of one million British Empire casualties, and Middlebrook’s reckoning looks sound .

 

Phil

[mikereme]

9 minutes ago, phil andrade said:

In the Ypres Salient itself, there’s a figure for British Empire casualties citing 160,000 killed and 410,000 wounded. That’s a challenging figure: no mention of missing, no reference to died of wounds. The number cited as killed might include deaths from all causes. If you stick with CWGC you’ll find about 190,000 dead for the whole of Belgium, but many wounded and gassed were evacuated to France or Blighty, where they subsequently perished, and are commemorated elsewhere.

 

I would repose confidence in the analysis of Martin Middlebrook, who wrote a book about the Somme battlefields, and stated :

 

” But the Somme deaths do not quite come up to the numbers who died around Ypres, where approximately 250,000 British died, though over a nine- month-longer period of the war. “. 
 

The Somme Battlefields,

page 353.

 

Phil

Cheers Phil... this sounds a fair point Martin Middlebrook is a respected author ( dare I say)... I was looking at a quarter of the Britain's and commonwealth casualties were lost in the Salient 

[phil andrade]

19 minutes ago, AOK4 said:

Phil,

Some 130.000 Germans are buried on German cemeteries in Belgium. Several thousand of these did not die anywhere near Ypres. On the other hand, several thousand that did die in the Ypres Salient are nowadays buried in France.

Jan

 

And, of course, Jan, there is that enormous number of unrecovered German dead in Belgium.  The estimated 90,000 was cited in a museum called In Flanders Fields. It seems like guesswork, but quite feasible.

 

Phil