3rdwatch Posted 24 August , 2023 Share Posted 24 August , 2023 All, Any help would be appreciated. This is the only photo I have of him in WW1. I have several of WW2. I know it’s not the best but it’s all I have. He would have been living in Birmingham UK when he went in. He is in the middle at age 16 Thank you in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryww1 Posted 24 August , 2023 Share Posted 24 August , 2023 Initial view, looks like yeomanry. i presume you do not have his medals nor his birth date. Whats his name ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdwatch Posted 24 August , 2023 Author Share Posted 24 August , 2023 Michael Kennedy. As far as date of birth all I know is 1902 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 24 August , 2023 Admin Share Posted 24 August , 2023 Welcome to the forum. A possibility might be Northumberland Yeomanry, or I’m now leaning towards 4th (Queens Own) Hussars. @FROGSMILE should be able to help more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryww1 Posted 24 August , 2023 Share Posted 24 August , 2023 Warwick ? Did he serve in both wars in the same regt or did he say he left and rejoined in WW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max7474 Posted 24 August , 2023 Share Posted 24 August , 2023 County of London Yeomanry Sharpshooters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max7474 Posted 24 August , 2023 Share Posted 24 August , 2023 the 4th Hussars for comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max7474 Posted 24 August , 2023 Share Posted 24 August , 2023 (edited) Looking at their turnout I think 4th Hussars is most likely. The fact they are mounted suggests Regular Cavalry rather than Yeomanry if the photo is 1920s or 30s. The CofL Yeomanry were in Armoured cars between the wars. Edited 24 August , 2023 by max7474 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 24 August , 2023 Share Posted 24 August , 2023 (edited) As per Michelle and then Max, I agree 4th Hussars too, the title scroll is definitely curved. Conversely the CofL is straight. The collar badges matched. He also wears the gilt metal ‘ball buttons’ that were unique to Hussar regiments and the RHA. Edited 25 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdwatch Posted 24 August , 2023 Author Share Posted 24 August , 2023 (edited) 26 minutes ago, max7474 said: Looking at their turnout I think 4th Hussars is most likely. The fact they are mounted suggests Regular Cavalry rather than Yeomanry if the photo is 1920s or 30s. The CofL Yeomanry were in Armoured cars between the wars. He had a fanatic love of horses. So that would make sense. He didn’t serve long. His mother while far from wealthy paid to have him brought home for being underage. He really resented it. He went back in in 1920. He came out and went back again for WW2 and was a mounted military police man in the Middle East and India. We have pics of him on his horse during that time. Edited 24 August , 2023 by 3rdwatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdwatch Posted 24 August , 2023 Author Share Posted 24 August , 2023 Anyone know where to find a WW1 4th collar badge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 24 August , 2023 Share Posted 24 August , 2023 2 minutes ago, 3rdwatch said: Anyone know where to find a WW1 4th collar badge? ‘Cultman’ are very good (authentic not copies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdwatch Posted 25 August , 2023 Author Share Posted 25 August , 2023 Thank you to everyone who replied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdwatch Posted 25 August , 2023 Author Share Posted 25 August , 2023 8 hours ago, henryww1 said: Warwick ? Did he serve in both wars in the same regt or did he say he left and rejoined in WW? We don't know a lot. He died in the early 1950's He was in WW2 in Eqypt and India as far as I know.. I am trying to peice togther his service as he joined and left the army multiple times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 25 August , 2023 Share Posted 25 August , 2023 I suspect it is him in the Tank Corps Enlistments on Findmypast. However the brief entry shows he didn't stay long. He was 4th Hussars. Could the photo be 1920? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 25 August , 2023 Share Posted 25 August , 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, charlie962 said: I suspect it is him in the Tank Corps Enlistments on Findmypast. However the brief entry shows he didn't stay long. He was 4th Hussars. Could the photo be 1920? No they were in India then Charlie and didn’t return home until 1930. The uniform and role barely changed at all during that decade so it’s very difficult to ascertain the date of the photo. Identifying the barracks via the verandah and balustrades is our best chance. Im fairly certain it’s Colchester as that matches perfectly with the stables below and verandah and accommodation above (York was a much older design), which suggests that the photo dates to 1932. See also: 4th (Queen’s Own Hussars). 1922Meerut 1924Lucknow 1927Meerut 1930England: York5 Div 1932Colchester 1933Tidworth 1934Aldershot1 Cav Bde 1936-1937mechanised Edited 25 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 25 August , 2023 Share Posted 25 August , 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: No they were in India then Would he have worn 4th Hussars badges whilst undergoing initial training at a Cavalry Depot in England in 1920? As I said he didn't stay long. Only a few months of 1920. Edit. 4th Hussars get quite a few mentions under sports in Aldershot Command 1920 ?? Edited 25 August , 2023 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 25 August , 2023 Share Posted 25 August , 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, charlie962 said: Would he have worn 4th Hussars badges whilst undergoing initial training at a Cavalry Depot in England in 1920? As I said he didn't stay long. Only a few months of 1920. I don’t think so, no Charlie. There are several men present and the cavalry depot was at Canterbury, which had a different design and no roof over the upper verandahs. Unfortunately, although it was an enormous garrison there are very few photos of its various barracks after the turn of the century in the public domain, but I include one featuring lancers that definitely shows the depot. As I understand it, it was only the depot for regiments serving overseas. Also, boy entrants to the cavalry were still trained within their respective regiments at that time. However, I’m not positive as yet regarding the depot arrangements after WW1 as there had been some reorganisation in the years before the war. Afternote: the cavalry depot described closed in 1897 with responsibility passing back to regiments individually and thus a much smaller depot, based on just the regiments located there, remained in situ at Canterbury. There was a necessary reorganisation in the 1910s with regiments paired to support each other, one overseas and one at home. There was subsequently wholesale reorganisation during WW1 to support the war effort, but what happened with cavalry training during the 1920s, as part of the inevitable post war retrenchment, is as yet unclear to me. Edited 25 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 25 August , 2023 Share Posted 25 August , 2023 (edited) I'm pretty sure the 4th Hussars were at Beaumont Barracks, Aldershot in 1920 and that that was where and when the photo was taken. Here's a 1973 photo from a site SoPse. Edit. : The South Cavalry Barracks were built in 1855-1856 and renamed Beaumont Barracks in 1909. They stood on a site between Alexandra Road and Farnborough Road. The barrack block housed cavalrymen on the first floor, in accomodation reached from the outside by steps and a wide balcony, and stabling for their horses on the ground floor. The barracks were demolished in the 1970s and a major housing development, Beaumont Park, built on the site. A few of the original Victorian buildings were retained. Part of the old Riding School was converted into sheltered accommodation for the elderly in the first years of the 21st century. http://www.sopse.org.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?a=query&p=gateway&f=generic_objectrecord_postsearch.htm&_IXFIRST_=4054&_IXMAXHITS_=1&m=quick_sform&tc1=i&tc2=e&s=cnwwBQDEuii Edited 25 August , 2023 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 25 August , 2023 Share Posted 25 August , 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, charlie962 said: I'm pretty sure the 4th Hussars were at Beaumont Barracks, Aldershot in 1920 and that that was where and when the photo was taken. Here's a 1973 photo from a site SoPse. Edit. : The South Cavalry Barracks were built in 1855-1856 and renamed Beaumont Barracks in 1909. They stood on a site between Alexandra Road and Farnborough Road. The barrack block housed cavalrymen on the first floor, in accomodation reached from the outside by steps and a wide balcony, and stabling for their horses on the ground floor. The barracks were demolished in the 1970s and a major housing development, Beaumont Park, built on the site. A few of the original Victorian buildings were retained. Part of the old Riding School was converted into sheltered accommodation for the elderly in the first years of the 21st century. http://www.sopse.org.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?a=query&p=gateway&f=generic_objectrecord_postsearch.htm&_IXFIRST_=4054&_IXMAXHITS_=1&m=quick_sform&tc1=i&tc2=e&s=cnwwBQDEuii I agree that certainly looks like the same barracks and the source of the locations I gave above shows the regiment as in Aldershot in 1919 after return from the war, but also embarking for India in that same year. See: https://web.archive.org/web/20060107091833/http://www.regiments.org/deploy/uk/reg-cav/d04.htm However, that source, ground breaking though it was, is known to contain some errors and the 1919/1920 date might be one of them. The thing that concerns me a little is that collar badges were not approved Army wide until the issue of the modified service dress jacket under ACI 129 of 1924. That said cavalry regiments had often worn collar badges during the war regardless of regulations, so it’s not a show stopper. Certainly I think that you’ve proved that the verandah and balustrades match and so confirmed the date as 1919-1920 given the regiments recorded movements. Good job! Edited 25 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 25 August , 2023 Share Posted 25 August , 2023 Aldershot News Aug 1919 via Findmypast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 25 August , 2023 Share Posted 25 August , 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, charlie962 said: Aldershot News Aug 1919 via Findmypast Excellent corroboration, 1919 arrival confirmed. I wonder if they embarked for India that year or the following one. It would’ve been an unusually fast turnaround to go in 1919, but not an impossible one. The culture to move units quickly was a strong one and something I experienced myself. Everything was pre prepared after many decades (centuries in some cases) of practice. Edited 25 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 25 August , 2023 Share Posted 25 August , 2023 (edited) They left Aldershot Sept 1921 going via Constantinople to India it seems. Edit Westminster Gazette Sept 1921 via Findmypast Edited 25 August , 2023 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 25 August , 2023 Share Posted 25 August , 2023 1 minute ago, charlie962 said: They left Aldershot Sept 1921 going via Constantinople to India it seems. Thanks Charlie, that is a more sensible timeline, so the chart is a little awry there, although it does seem to show the first station on arrival in India correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 25 August , 2023 Share Posted 25 August , 2023 (edited) Here's another little gap filled in. 1919 he joins the RAF. On the back page you will find he got into trouble again! I'll pm you a bit more. Note there is never a mention of previous service. Tank Enlistments had this as his mother's address. Which is the same as appears on his RAF record in this extract. Ps. I presume you picked up him and his mother on the 1911 Census for Fazeley Street? Edited 25 August , 2023 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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