Terms of service question

[Skipman]

Am trying to work out the terms of service of a 1st Black Watch soldier Pte/Piper 9220 Archie Campbell who enlisted on the 10th of June 1902. No service record survives. If he had signed for seven and five he would have transferred to the reserves on the 11th of June 1909 and his five years in the reserves would have been up in June 1914.  On the 4th of August 1914 he would have been 31 years old and newspaper reports say "he was one of the first to be called up to his regiment." His MIC shows he entered theatre France on the 13th of August 1914 with the 1st Black Watch.

Was the five years in the reserves absolute or was there some leeway and the period between June 11th 1914 (when his period in the reserves should have expired) and August 4th 1914 could be overlooked. Could he have signed for more years service with the reserves? By 1914 he had 4 children.

Could it just have been that with the outbreak of war if he was keen to go, as an experienced soldier a blind-eye might have been turned to any paperwork?

Mike

 

[rolt968]

There are people with much more knowledge of this than I have. Couldn't he have extended his service in the Reserve?

RM

[Skipman]

6 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

There are people with much more knowledge of this than I have. Couldn't he have extended his service in the Reserve?

RM

Thanks for reply RM. I suppose so, I'm not sure how that worked. Was there a set period you could sign for again. Just looking for the most likely scenario if anyone knows. I think 38 was the age limit at that time.

Mike

[Machalovich]

I would expect that if he was called up as a reservist that he had extended his commitment after finishing his Section B obligation (five years) in June 1914 and was hence called up as a Section D reservist (additional 4 years in reserves).

[Skipman]

1 minute ago, Machalovich said:

I would expect that if he was called up as a reservist that he had extended his commitment after finishing his Section B obligation (five years) in June 1914 and was hence called up as a Section D reservist (additional 4 years in reserves).

Many thanks Machalovich. Now I know what to look for will check Section D Reservists.

Mike

[Skipman]

I knew it would be in here just not sure where to look. Seems so easy now. Thank you all.

British Army Reserves and Reservists The Long Long Trail

Mike

 

[Machalovich]

hope it helps, would certainly explain why he was called up again. During my own research for my Masters I came across a lot of 2nd Boer-War veterans called up in August 1914 who had signed for section D service. As it was paid (quarterly) and didn't require a huge training commitment it was probably a popular option for working men looking to up their income.

[Skipman]

Just now, Machalovich said:

hope it helps, would certainly explain why he was called up again. During my own research for my Masters I came across a lot of 2nd Boer-War veterans called up in August 1914 who had signed for section D service. As it was paid (quarterly) and didn't require a huge training commitment it was probably a popular option for working men looking to up their income.

Yes it helps very much. I wasn't sure what I was looking for and it all makes sense. I now have other questions on this soldier but they might have to go to Skindles.

 

Mike

[Skipman]

So

9920 Archibald Campbell enlisted in the Black Watch at Aberfeldy aged 19 on the 10th of June 1902 according to a newspaper report. The number seems to bear that out. He served with the 1st Battalion The Black Watch. He married Christina Binnie on the 24th of September 1904 at 35 George IV Bridge Edinburgh, his address given as The Castle and rank a Piper Black Watch. If he signed for 7 years with the colours and 5 in the reserve he would have entered the reserves in June 1909. It's possible he signed for 4 more years service in Section D Reserves in June 1914.

However, the thing is....

Archie had eight children, all girls. The first born in April 1906 in Aberfeldy. Archie's occupation at this time is a ploughman living in Kenmore Street, Aberfeldy. He's at the same address same occupation in August 1907 when his second daughter is born. In April 1909 this third daughter is born his address at this time Dunkeld Street, Aberfeldy, his occupation a Carter. He has another daughter in November 1910 and another in June 1912 still a Carter living at Dunkeld Street Aberfeldy. In February 1914 his sixth daughter is born his occupation at this time a barman living still at Dunkeld Street, Aberfeldy.  Newspaper reports in August 1914  say he was one of the first to be called up to his regiment and his MIC confirms he went to France on the 13th of August 1914 with the 1st Battalion The Black Watch. He's wounded in November 1914 and back convalescing in Aberfeldy for a time and possibly wounded in late 1915 at Ypres. That he was home at about this time is confirmed by the birth of his seventh daughter in August 1916 his address Chapel Street, Aberfeldy and his occupation as a Piper in the 8th Black Watch (medal roll confirms service with 8th Battalion) A postcard confirms he was in Germany in 1919 with the BAOR and his eighth and last daughter is born in June 1920.

What terms of service would fit this timeline. Could you just serve between June 1902 and April 1906  in the Army yet still be a reservist?

Mike

 

[Machalovich]

11 minutes ago, Skipman said:

So

9920 Archibald Campbell enlisted in the Black Watch at Aberfeldy aged 19 on the 10th of June 1902 according to a newspaper report. The number seems to bear that out. He served with the 1st Battalion The Black Watch. He married Christina Binnie on the 24th of September 1904 at 35 George IV Bridge Edinburgh, his address given as The Castle and rank a Piper Black Watch. If he signed for 7 years with the colours and 5 in the reserve he would have entered the reserves in June 1909. It's possible he signed for 4 more years service in Section D Reserves in June 1914.

However, the thing is....

Archie had eight children, all girls. The first born in April 1906 in Aberfeldy. Archie's occupation at this time is a ploughman living in Kenmore Street, Aberfeldy. He's at the same address same occupation in August 1907 when his second daughter is born. In April 1909 this third daughter is born his address at this time Dunkeld Street, Aberfeldy, his occupation a Carter. He has another daughter in November 1910 and another in June 1912 still a Carter living at Dunkeld Street Aberfeldy. In February 1914 his sixth daughter is born his occupation at this time a barman living still at Dunkeld Street, Aberfeldy.  Newspaper reports in August 1914  say he was one of the first to be called up to his regiment and his MIC confirms he went to France on the 13th of August 1914 with the 1st Battalion The Black Watch. He's wounded in November 1914 and back convalescing in Aberfeldy for a time and possibly wounded in late 1915 at Ypres. That he was home at about this time is confirmed by the birth of his seventh daughter in August 1916 his address Chapel Street, Aberfeldy and his occupation as a Piper in the 8th Black Watch (medal roll confirms service with 8th Battalion) A postcard confirms he was in Germany in 1919 with the BAOR and his eighth and last daughter is born in June 1920.

What terms of service would fit this timeline. Could you just serve between June 1902 and April 1906  in the Army yet still be a reservist?

Mike

 

I believe that prewar there were a variety of enlistment options to make up the 12 years of total service such as 3 years with the colours and 9 in the reserves, which may have been an option for your man based on the dates you have identified - he would have finished his service in June 1905, which is coincidentally 10 months before his first daughter was born so he must have been busy when he got out! See this article from the Long Long Trail which gives some good examples of service periods that weren't the standard 7+5: https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/interpreting-service-records-clues-from-attestation/

[Skipman]

2 minutes ago, Machalovich said:

I believe that prewar there were a variety of enlistment options to make up the 12 years of total service such as 3 years with the colours and 9 in the reserves, which may have been an option for your man based on the dates you have identified - he would have finished his service in June 1905, which is coincidentally 10 months before his first daughter was born so he must have been busy when he got out! See this article from the Long Long Trail which gives some good examples of service periods that weren't the standard 7+5: https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/interpreting-service-records-clues-from-attestation/

Many thanks again for your help Machalovich I will study that. That's very interesting.

Mike

[Skipman]

Well there you go, have not seen that before, 3 with the colours and 9 in the reserves fits rather nicely.

Mike

Edited 14 August , 2023 by Skipman

[rolt968]

Somewhere two or three years ago someone posted the available X + Y combinations which were available when in the period 1901 to 1914.

RM

[PRC]

15 hours ago, Skipman said:

Am trying to work out the terms of service of a 1st Black Watch soldier Pte/Piper 9220 Archie Campbell who enlisted on the 10th of June 1902. No service record survives.

With an enlistment date of the 10^th June 1902 it is likely many of his contemporaries will have exited the army and so may have surviving service records in the WO97 series, which I know is available on FindMyPast and Genes Reunited, (both owned by the same company), but I don’t think they are on Ancestry \ Fold3.

9211 David Bethune attested at Perth on the 27^th May 1902. He enlisted for a 12 year short service, split 3 in the colours and 9 in the reserves. He had no previous military experience.  He reached the depot at Perth on the same day, when it is likely his service number was issued. He purchased his discharged on the 1^st July 1902.

9213 Alexander McGregor attested at Perth on the 28^th May 1902. He enlisted for a 12 year short service, split 3 in the colours and 9 in the reserves. He was then serving in the Regiments 3^rd Militia Battalion. He reached the depot at Perth on the same day, when it is likely his service number was issued. He was discharged on the 24^th June 1902 – “Services not required” !

9215 George Tasker attested at Perth on the 3^rd June 1902. He enlisted for a 12 year short service, split 3 in the colours and 9 in the reserves. He was then serving in the Regiments 3^rd Militia Battalion. He reached the depot at Perth on the same day, when it is likely his service number was issued. After his initial training he was posted to the 1^st Battalion on the 21^st November 1902. Discharged for misconduct in 1904.

9216 Thomas Rutherford attested at Perth on the 3^rd June 1902. He enlisted for a 12 year short service, split 3 in the colours and 9 in the reserves. He had no previous military experience. He reached the depot at Perth on the same day, when it is likely his service number was issued. He was discharged on the 2^nd July 1902, mis-statement as to age.

9233 Thomas Morrison attested at Edinburgh on the 2^nd July 1902. He enlisted for a 12 year short service, split 3 in the colours and 9 in the reserves. He had no previous military experience. He joined the 2^nd Battalion at Edinburgh on the 5^th July 1902 , so it is likely his service number was issued when the paperwork caught up. Discharged 18^th July 1902 as “Incorrigible and worthless”.

9241 Alfred Vanbeek attested at Kirkcaldy on the 18^th July 1902. He enlisted for a 12 year short service, split 3 in the colours and 9 in the reserves. He had no previous military experience. He reached the depot on the following day, when it is likely his service number was issued. He purchased his discharge on the 24^th September 1902.

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My understanding is that based on the experience of the Boer War, and with the potential for a war against an industrialised country \ countries, the desire was to build up a comparable reserve to those being created by the likes of France & Germany but without the introduction of National Service.

It was hoped that the shorter period in the colours would expand the recruitment base, and so the army authorities switched over from pushing a 7 and 5 split as the default to a 3 and 9. Unfortunately the base did not expand, recruitment remained much the same and by 1905 was building up a potential manpower crisis in the garrisons around the Empire. Too many of the 3 year men were not even being posted overseas and so incentives had to be offered to the exisiting 7 and 5 men to extend their time in the colours, (and do less in the reserves).

By then the Army were experimenting with pushing 9 and 3 before reverting to 7 and 5. Other options were available, but unless a man requested them, the default was what they got.

I only have anecdotal evidence but seems these 3 and 9 men were much derided when in came to mobilisation in August 1914. Some of the Section D Reservists had been out of uniform for nearly 9 years and so few of them were used to bring the UK battalions up to campaign strength, being held back for subsequent drafts after remedial training.

Bear in mind we are also talking about Infantry. Cavalry followed the same practice as the Infantry. I believed the Guards had offered 3 and 9 prior to this period, the specialist arms like the Artillery and Engineers I believe did 6 and 6 as the default.

The breakdown of new recruits by long \ short enlistment and initial colours & reserves splits was published annually and we have had at least one thread where the figures were reproduced and discussed.

Hope that helps,
Peter

[Skipman]

Many thanks indeed Peter that's excellent information. Much obliged.

Mike