John William Smith RNR L.1300

[Alison Smith]

 

Another request for some help in deciphering TNA records please.  I am researching another distant Shetland relation of my husband's, John William Smith from Dunrossness.  His service record is here https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8536006

I've attached the summary of information I have pulled from his record and other sources but there are a couple of sections of page 3 of his record that I'd like help with. 

The first part is the Commencement of Service section which to me reads

HMS Ipheginia Russian Govt Trawler No 22  - 18.10.16

Accident ?? for D.A.M.V. (SS Coronado) - 5.12.16

What does D.A.M.V. mean?

I got information on Ipheginia and her voyages from here http://www.naval-history.net/OWShips-WW1-05-HMS_Iphigenia.htm

She was a cruiser which had been converted to a mine layer and was in Yukanski (now Ostrovnoy) on the White Sea in Russia from 19 May 1916 until she left for Lerwick on 8 November 1916 and then to Chatham where she arrived on 25 November 1916.

Minimal information on Coronado from here https://www.naval-history.net/Oxon01-ShipList.htm

She was hired as commissioned escort ship 1915(b) and on Atlantic convoys Nov 1917-Oct 1918.

I've also got a big gap in where John was between being discharged from Pembroke on 6.12.16 and being on SS Aparima when she was torpedoed on 19.11.1917. 

I knew that he had been killed when his ship was torpedoed but I didn't know he was on a New Zealand ship.  I've found quite a bit in the NZ newspapers about the sinking as Aparima carried a lot of young cadets and many also died.  I have just discovered this article with more detail on the sinking so will update my summary later.

 

https://mercantilemarine.wordpress.com/new-zealand-roll-of-honour/aparim/

The second part is the Remarks section on the right had side which is something like

B 342 Pembroke 15 or 18.10.16 They should be retained on S.B. of Depot and returned to Depot on arrival of Trawler ?? White Sea 18.10.16

I can't make out the line underneath but the date looks like 12.17 so after he died.

Also what do the C's all over the record refer to?

Thanks so much for any help you can give me.

Kind regards Alison

 

 

 

 

John William Smith RNR L 1300.pdf

[KizmeRD]

Let me add to your narrative in a couple of places…

He enrolled as a member of Shetland RNR on 9 Nov. 1915, and was based in Lerwick & Bustavoe up until July 1916 when he was sent off island to HMS Prembroke (Chatham) for training.

In October 1916 he was briefly part of the crew assigned to Russian Government Trawler No. 22 (delivery voyage?).
HMS Iphigenia, an old Apollo Class Cruiser, was at the time serving as a depot ship for sixteen minesweeping & patrol trawlers operating up in the White Sea. Smith then came back to Chatham with IPHIGENIA when it returned to the UK in November of the same year and appears to have trained to become a gunner, for service in Defensively Armed Merchant Ships (DAMS) - not ‘DAMV’ as is shown on his naval service sheet (presumably ‘v’ for vessel got written down instead of ‘s’ for ship).  Whilst serving as a DAMS gunner he would have nominally been attached to HMS President (note, not Accident) -  PRESIDENT III being his accounting base, on whose books he was placed purely for purposes of pay and administration.

During 1917 he would have been posted to a variety of merchant ships (on voyage basis) as naval gun crew, (including what appears to be s.s. Coronado and s.s. Aparima - the ship he happened to be aboard when it was sunk on 19 Nov. 1917). His body was never recovered and so his name was commemorated on the Portsmouth Naval Memorial (and also locally on Shetland’s Roll of Honour).

MB

 

Edited 13 August , 2023 by KizmeRD

[KizmeRD]

Here’s the entry on Shetland’s Roll of Honour…

MB

[KizmeRD]

As we now know, John Smith was serving as gun’s crew on the Aparima (Union Steamship Company) at the time of his death.

Aparima was an extremely well known ship in New Zealand and during the Great War she was used as a troop transport on six separate occasions.

Final voyage - on the night of the 18-19 November 1917 the SS Aparima whilst sailing to a Welsh port for coaling was torpedoed by UB 40 in the English Channel off Anvil Point. The ship was hit in the stern, where the cabin with 30 cadets was located, and quickly took on water and began sinking by the stern. The crew abandoned ship with many taking to the lifeboats and others leaping directly into the water. Some of the lifeboats failed to clear the sinking ship and were capsized when they were struck by their own davits. Of a total compliment of 110, a total of 54, including 17 cadets, lost their lives. (Aparima was also the Company’s officer cadet training vessel, in addition to her primary commercial activities).

Aparima was what we call a defensively armed merchant ship, meaning that she’d been fitted with a deck gun in order to provide a modest degree of comfort and protection against the threat from U-boats operating on the surface. Smith’s gun would have been positioned somewhere prominent on the stern of the ship, so when the torpedo struck its likely that he would have been close to the point of detonation.

MB

 

[Alison Smith]

That's all great info to have, especially the DAMS info which explains how he ended up on Aparima.

Thanks so much for all your help again.

Cheers

Alison

[JohnH]

Greetings from Shetland.  My grandmother was born in Troswickness, Dunrossness, in 1892 so would have known John William Smith when he was growing up. 

Couple of things to add:

John William Smith left Lerwick on 19 July 1916 on the Armed Boarding Steamer HMS Amsterdam, with a contingent of 200 men from the R.N.R. Shetland Section, who had volunteered for general Royal Naval service out with Shetland, firstly at Chatham as you know.  

Source: Shetland and The Great War (page 88) by Linda K Riddell. Lerwick harbour shipping records.  

You should be able to find newspaper reports on their departure in a Shetland News article on 20 July 1916 at 

https://www.shetlandmuseumandarchives.org.uk/education/online-activities/search-our-archive-catalogue under Reference: SA1/14/32/29/p.2

John William Smith appears to have joined SS CORONADO on 5 Dec. 1916 as a DAMS gunner.

The Crew Lists for SS CORONADO O.N. 136350 are available for late 1916 at BT 165/1559 and at BT 165/1736 for early 1917, so worth a look.

Extracted Logs: Ships's Name Pembrokeshire Official Number 136349 Dates of Voyage 2... | The National Archives

Extracted Logs: Ship's Name Carmarthenshire Official Number 136347 Dates of Voyages 3... | The National Archives

Its worth having a look at the RNR record for Cowie, James Place of Birth: Tayport, Fifeshire Number: C 3753 under TNA record: BT 377/7/35976.

Leading Seaman James Cowie aged 35, Royal Naval Reserve Service Number: 3753C was the other RNR man who was lost on S.S. Aparima on 19 November 1917. His record shows that he qualified as a Gun Layer on 12 January 1917 at HMS EXCELLENT for 3 to 15 Pounders. He was posted to HMS PRESIDENT as a DAMS gunner on 16 January 1917. DAMS gunners usually worked in pairs. So at some point James Cowie would have been posted together with John William Smith. As the more experienced gunner James Cowie was probably the Gun Layer on the S.S. Aparima with Seamen John William Smith acting as breach loader. 

 

[Alison Smith]

Hi JohnH

Oh my gosh, I did not expect to find a Shetland connection, let alone a Troswick/Troswickness one.  I'll message you when I get a chance but thanks so much for the additional information.

 

[KizmeRD]

Just a further piece of information regarding DAMS ships and naval gunnery ratings…

By the end of the war, well in excess of 5,000 British Merchant Ships had been equipped with defensive armament of one kind or another, and very near 12,000 DAMS gunners were employed at sea. A total around 7,000 guns got fitted, with roughly half of these being of 4-inch calibre or more.

DAMS ratings (normally two in number) were sent to each ship to carry out gunnery duties. The senior rating acted as gun-layer, and the junior as breech worker, with additional personnel (needed to supply and load the cartridges & projectiles) made up of ordinary members of the ship’s crew. The naval ratings were entirely responsible for the care and readiness of the gun, and also for the safekeeping of its ammunition - but the ship’s Master was the person responsible for issuing any order to open fire.

Also, to prevent the possibility of internment, the naval ratings were required to sign-on the books as ordinary crew members (although they were not expected to perform regular shipboard duties) and importantly, they were not permitted to wear naval uniform when in neutral ports.

MB

[JohnH]

Alison, there is a Crew List for S.S. Aparima Official Number 115807 for 1917 at TNA under ref:  BT 99/3334

Search results: 115807 | The National Archives

S.S. Aparima details can be found :

Crew List Index Project

 

 

[Alison Smith]

Thanks MB and John for the extra info.  While the Aparima info is probably more than I need for writing John Smith's history, I am finding it fascinating how different records report the crew details and the variation in the number of deaths - between 54 and 57!  

I had previously come across a casualty list with John Smith and James Cowie of the RNR, many crew from the Indian Merchant Marine as well as the NZ cadets and crew which I think was on wrecksite.eu but I can't access that website now . 

I have some more information now so I'll link it here in case it is of interest.  NZ has FREE access to its digitised newspapers so there are a number of accounts from survivors while these are some articles I have come across

missing crew

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19171126.2.83.1

Crew list with no John Smith or James Cowie

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/DOM19171124.2.46

Info on captains and Aparima history

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19171126.2.83.2

But the best find was last night  - a local thesis with a chapter on the history of the Aparima which I need to have a decent read of but it seems she was fitted as a DAMS with a 4 inch gun in 1916, possibly Dakar from the photo shown but the gun was not a permanent fixture (pages 99-100).  Aparima only transferred from the NZ Government charter to the Admiralty on 15 November 1917 before sailing on 18 November (page 107) but there is no mention of her having RNR gunners on board or their fate.

https://mro.massey.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10179/5469/02_whole.pdf

[KizmeRD]

7 hours ago, Alison Smith said:

Thanks MB and John for the extra info.  While the Aparima info is probably more than I need for writing John Smith's history, I am finding it fascinating how different records report the crew details and the variation in the number of deaths - between 54 and 57!  

CWGC lists 53 ship’s ordinary crew members (officers & ratings), plus two RNR DAMS gunners, and in addition to that there was the Channel Pilot (as the Dover Straits and English Channel east of the Isle of Wight was a compulsory pilotage area for merchant shipping). Total of 56. - Likely there may have been an inaccuracy regarding the make-up of the Lascar contingent (which included six ‘boys’). 
 

MB

[Alison Smith]

I keep learning more  .  I'll use 56 then.

MB would the Channel Pilot be listed on CWGC as Mercantile Marine or in the civilian lists ??

I've also just realised I saw the Tower Hill Mercantile Memorial last year when I was in London.

[KizmeRD]

The Pilot’sname was W.G. Posgate, but he’s not included on the CWGC database.

And only (26) seafarers are commemorated under name Aparima on the Tower Hill memorial (no Lascars named).

https://www.benjidog.co.uk/Tower Hill/WW1 Aparima to Arca.php#Aparima

MB

[Alison Smith]

MB, thanks for the pilot info and Tower Hill link which interestingly shows J Cowie and JW Smith amongst the Aparima crew names.

I've also found a Kent newspaper article on WG Posgate who was a Trinity House sea pilot based at Gravesend and was the preferred pilot for the USSCo until he retired in 1945 and died in 1950.

 

[KizmeRD]

As part of the pretence, DAMS Gunners were made to sign on the ships books, so that when the ships documents were inspected in neutral ports, the men didn’t get interned for being combatants. DAMS Gunners also qualified for the award of the Merchant Marine Medal, in addition to any naval/military medal entitlements.

And glad that you found something on the Gravesend Pilot - Pilotage service would also have qualified for the award of the Merchant Marine Medal, but apparently (correct me if I’m wrong) the names of Maritime Pilots who were lost at sea due to acts of war are not commemorated on the Tower Hill Memorial.

MB

PS In total, 96 men employed by Trinity House lost their lives during the Great War, not only Maritime Pilots, but also lighthouse keepers and those responsible for laying navigational buoys round the coast. The biggest single loss of life (11) was the sinking of the Trinity House Vessel ALERT which struck a mine off Dover (15 April. 1917). There is a stained glass window in St. Olave’s Church (City of London) dedicated to the memory of all Trinity Hose men who lost their lives during WW1.

Edited 19 August , 2023 by KizmeRD