SS Palm Branch

[lmcfaull]

Hi - I am researching my family history and on the 1921 census my Great Grandmother Annie Woodcock is living with a man from Shanghai China called Way Young.  It states his occupation as having been a Quarter Master on the SS Palm Branch.  I would love to try and find out more about this man if possible.  It states that he is Annie's brother in law.  Annie was married to a man called Quo Tin in 1918 although he is not showing at the home in 1921.  The marriage certificate states his occupation as being a sailor in the Chinese navy.    I would really like to find out more about both men if anyone can help but the names seem to vary on different documents so it is not proving easy.  Maybe Quo Tin was back at sea in 1921? Many Thanks

[DavidOwen]

Is there a ww1 element to the service of these men? 

If not we will have to close the thread but members can still communicate via the private message system.

[lmcfaull]

Sorry I don't know - I looked up SS Palm Branch on a search engine and there was a post on this site.  The timescale I am looking at is certainly during WW1 as they arrive in the UK from China during the war and both in the Chinese Navy.  

[DavidOwen]

OK we will let it run for a while to see what transpires.

[lmcfaull]

Thank you - I appreciate that 

[PRC]

50 minutes ago, lmcfaull said:

I looked up SS Palm Branch on a search engine and there was a post on this site.  The timescale I am looking at is certainly during WW1 as they arrive in the UK from China during the war and both in the Chinese Navy.  

Here's the old thread

If they came to the UK then would seem more likely to be serving with the British Merchant Marine rather than any form of Chinese Navy - military or civilian

While the 1915 crewlist site only covers that year, the two crew agreements for the SS Palmbranch each feature a number of Chinese sailors. As standard they also list previous ship served on, and as the first one for the Palm Branch runs from August 1914, by implication you can also get some idea of where they were serving earlier in 1914.

Given the scope for name variation you may want to take a look and see if any of the details marry up with either of your sailors. https://1915crewlists.rmg.co.uk/document?vessel_search[vesselName]=Palm+Branch&vessel_search[officialNumber]=&vessel_search[submit]=

Cheers,
Peter

[lmcfaull]

Thank you so much. I will definitely look at that link and try and investigate further. 

[KizmeRD]

The Chinese Navy didn’t really have any ships during the Great War period.

MB

[Simon Schnetzke]

Good evening,

PALM BRANCH was damaged on May 4th, 1917 by gunfire from U 45 (Sittenfeld) after a torpedo had missed it‘s target. The gunners of the steamer scored a hit on the sub which caused minor damage. Finally PALM BRANCH reached the Kola Bay.

Cheers,

Simon

[KizmeRD]

All Chinese working aboard S.S. Palm Branch in 1915 tended to be Hong Kong born and were employed as Firemen/Trimmers.

A Quartermaster was a helmsman (a seaman rating), it was one of the roles onboard ship, but wasn’t a permanent rank (at least not in the British Mercantile Marine).

MB

Edit - I stand corrected - there are several Chinese ‘Quartermasters’ on various British merchant ships listed on the Hong Kong Memorial.

Edited 12 August , 2023 by KizmeRD

[lmcfaull]

Thank you so much for your help.  I am trying to see if I can find more information on either man to see if I can find alternative names for them.

[lmcfaull]

Quo Tin was certainly Tin Quo in some records and died in 1926 at the Dreadnought Seamans hospital? On Ancestry someone has stated that in 1920 he was Second Steward on the SS Morton Abbey but I am not sure how they know this.  There is a "Tin" on the Palm Branch list that Peter kindly shared but I am not sure if they are connected. Way Young is meant to be the brother of Quo Tin.  On the 1939 census there is a handwritten note to say "otherwise Sin Wong Chung".  I am not sure if this is an additional person or another name that Way Young was known by. 

[JohnH]

@lmcfaull It would be helpful if you can post dates or years of birth if available from the 1921 census and 1939 register for the men in question. It may aid the search. 

[ernest james]

Lloyds register for 1920-21 gives the ss Palm Branch official number as 106086. she was managed by Ritson of Sunderland.

it appears that she left the UK in Jan/feb 1921 and again in July 1921.

I found three irish merchant seamen on these two voyages using bt 350 which covers the period 1918-21,

There are a significant number of Chinese seamen in bt 350. Records often include passport style photo. (available on findmypast)

Might be worth checking

best wishes

ernestjames

Edited 13 August , 2023 by ernest james
added photo detail

[lmcfaull]

Of Course JohnH - on the 1921 census Mr Way Young is listed as aged 29 and in 1939 census states year of birth as 1894 so discrepancy.  Quo Tin when marries Annie in 1918 is listed as 28 years old so born around 1897.

Thank you ernest james - it may be worth me joining Find My Past as only a member of Ancestry 

[KizmeRD]

14 hours ago, Simon Schnetzke said:

PALM BRANCH was damaged on May 4th, 1917 by gunfire from U 45 (Sittenfeld) after a torpedo had missed it‘s target. The gunners of the steamer scored a hit on the sub which caused minor damage. Finally PALM BRANCH reached the Kola Bay.

Simon, this wasn’t the first time during the war that the ship encountered a U-boat…

On 21st November 1916 the Flanders-based UB 40, attacked PALM BRANCH in the English Channel. Although the ship was at that time still un-armed, Captain F.M. Maling was not prepared to give in, so turned his stern to the enemy (to present the smallest possible target), and made off at best speed. The port lifeboat was shot away, the starboard lifeboat holed, the bridge was hit, wounding a seaman, and the crew quarters aft were wrecked. The apprentice at the wheel was wounded by a splinter, but stayed at his post, and although PALM BRANCH now had a fire burning in her forecastle, continual evasive action prevented the submarine from getting abeam. After half an hour of this, the submarine finally gave up, and PALM BRANCH was able to get to a French port for repairs. Captain Maling (a Temporary Lieutenant RNR) was appointed a companion of the Distinguished Service Order (DSO) in recognition of his efforts in saving the vessel. 

MB

PS  The second encounter with U-45 earned him a bar to his DSO, as at the time it was thought that the ship may have sunk the U-boat.

PPS PALM BRANCH was taken up by the Government for war service on 8 August 1914 and became part of the huge fleet of vessels bringing supplies to the British Expeditionary Force in France, remaining in Government service up until November 1916. After which, the ship became a wheat carrier for three months (including a two-week spell repairing damage), and then did a month as a collier, before starting a four-month stint carrying US munitions to Russia. From the summer of 1917 to the end of the war, she spent most of her time on the North Atlantic, at various times serving the Italian, French and Belgian governments. She finally came off official charter on 31 January 1919.

Edited 13 August , 2023 by KizmeRD

[PRC]

1 hour ago, lmcfaull said:

Quo Tin was certainly Tin Quo in some records and died in 1926 at the Dreadnought Seamans hospital?

Not sure which part of the statment you are unsure of. Certainly the death of a 37 year old Quo Tin and the 37 year old Tin Quo were recorded in the Greenwich District in the July to September quarter, (Q3) of 1926, (so born c1889/1890.

The entries are very near - Quo Tin is to be found on Register Volume 1d Page 706 and so is Tin Quo.

Greenwich was certainly the location of the Dreadnought Seamans Hospital, dealing with members of the Merchant Navy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seafarers_Hospital_Society

If you haven't already done so may be worthwhile applying for the death certificates. I understand the GRO have very recently introduced a cheap and cheerful display on screen only version of the entry in the death register for I think £2.50 - sorry, not used it myself, only seen it mentioned on the forum.

1 hour ago, lmcfaull said:

On the 1939 census there is a handwritten note to say "otherwise Sin Wong Chung".  I am not sure if this is an additional person or another name that Way Young was known by. 

The 1939 Register went on to be used as the control document for the issue of ID Cards and Ration Books, as well as eventually the Day 1 Registry of the NHS, so it will relate to Way Young.

Cheers,
Peter

[lmcfaull]

Thank you Peter - I have ordered death certificates yesterday for both Quo Tin and Way Young.  

[lmcfaull]

52 minutes ago, KizmeRD said:

Simon, this wasn’t the first time during the war that the ship encountered a U-boat…

On 21st November 1916 the Flanders-based UB 40, attacked PALM BRANCH in the English Channel. Although the ship was at that time still un-armed, Captain F.M. Maling was not prepared to give in, so turned his stern to the enemy (to present the smallest possible target), and made off at best speed. The port lifeboat was shot away, the starboard lifeboat holed, the bridge was hit, wounding a seaman, and the crew quarters aft were wrecked. The apprentice at the wheel was wounded by a splinter, but stayed at his post, and although PALM BRANCH now had a fire burning in her forecastle, continual evasive action prevented the submarine from getting abeam. After half an hour of this, the submarine finally gave up, and PALM BRANCH was able to get to a French port for repairs. Captain Maling (a Temporary Lieutenant RNR) was appointed a companion of the Distinguished Service Order (DSO) in recognition of his efforts in saving the vessel. 

MB

PS  The second encounter with U-45 earned him a bar to his DSO, as at the time it was thought that the ship may have sunk the U-boat.

PPS PALM BRANCH was taken up by the Government for war service on 8 August 1914 and became part of the huge fleet of vessels bringing supplies to the British Expeditionary Force in France and stayed in Government service until November 1916. After that, the ship became a wheat carrier for three months (including a two-week spell repairing damage), and then did a month as a collier, before starting a four-month stint carrying US munitions to Russia. From the summer of 1917 to the end of the war, she spent most of her time on the North Atlantic, at various times serving the Italian, French and Belgian governments. She finally came off official charter on 31 January 1919.

That is really interesting.  I have one e mail from my Dad who died 6 years which mentions that his Grandmother lived with a Chinese man who had a false eye.  Having seen the census records in 1921 and 1939 (the year dad was born) stating Annie was living with Way Young and knowing that at this point Quo Tin had already died, I assume it was him.  Having just received the 1921 census record and seeing that he served in on the Palm Branch, I had wondered if the eye injury was sustained during his time there.

[KizmeRD]

1 minute ago, lmcfaull said:

Having just received the 1921 census record and seeing that he served in on the Palm Branch, I had wondered if the eye injury was sustained during his time there.

Yet to establish clearly whether either of these two Chinese ratings served aboard Palm Branch during the period of the Great War, and there’s no saying how the eye injury may have occurred.

MB

[seaJane]

16 hours ago, lmcfaull said:

Quo Tin was certainly Tin Quo in some records

There was probably some official confusion as to surname and personal name - Chinese names are normally given surname first (eg Mao Tse-tung / Chairman Mao).

And, I do not know enough about Chinese pronunciation to know whether this theory is viable, but perhaps Sin Wong Chung was in fact Tin Wong Chung, and had been mis-heard or mis-interpreted?

sJ

[lmcfaull]

4 hours ago, seaJane said:

There was probably some official confusion as to surname and personal name - Chinese names are normally given surname first (eg Mao Tse-tung / Chairman Mao).

And, I do not know enough about Chinese pronunciation to know whether this theory is viable, but perhaps Sin Wong Chung was in fact Tin Wong Chung, and had been mis-heard or mis-interpreted?

sJ

That sounds possible and something I hadn't considered.  Thank you.

[Maplebank]

Quoted from ‘Merchantmen at arms” DW Bone — available for free (download the PDF!) at https://archive.org/details/merchantmenatarm00boneuoft/mode/2up  (much reccomended--also for his brother Muirhead's illustrations -- btw David Bone also wrote a similar history of mechantmen in ww2, and his account of apprentiship in the excellent 'the brassbounder' (https://archive.org/details/brassbounder00boneiala/mode/2up) 

‘Palm Branch’ turned away from galling fire at short range, double banked the press in the stokehold, and cut and turned on her course to confuse the ranges. Her stern was shattered by shell, the lifeboats blown away; the apprentice at the wheel stood to his job with blood running in his eyes. Fire broke out and added a new terror to the situation. there was no flinching. Through it all the engines turned steadily, driven to their utmost speed by the engineers and firemen, A one sided affair-a floating hell for seamen to stand by, helpless, and take a frightful gruelling! But they stood to it and came to port.’

A while after this, when merchantmen had been fitted with a gun, Palm Branch had her revenge.--

’Palm Branch, belying her tranquil name, took a payment in full for her shattered stern and the blood running in the steersman;s eyes. Keen eyes sighted a periscope in time. the helm was put over and the white track raced across the stern, missing by feet. Baffled in underwater attack, the enemy hove up from his depths to open surface fire. he never had opportunity. if lookout was good. gun action was as quick and ready in Palm Branch. Her first shot struck the conning tower, the second drove home on the submarine, which sank. While all eyes were focused on the settling wash and spreading scum of oil, a new challenge came and was as speedily accepted. A shell fired by a second submarine at long range, passed over the steamer. Slewing round to a new target, the gunners kept up a steady return, shot for shot. The submarine  dropped further astern, fearing the probe of a bracket: he angled his course to bring both his guns in action. Two peices against the steamers one !  At this he fared no better. firing continuously, eighty rounds in less than an hour, he registered not one hit.  At length Palm Branch’s steady, methodical search for the range had effect. her gunners capped the days fine shooting by scoring a direct hit on the submarine’s after gun, shattering the piece. At evens again—- the U-boat ceased fire and drew off, possibly under threat of british patrols approaching at full speed, more probably for the good and sufficient reason that he had had enough.

Edited 29 December , 2023 by Maplebank
spelling and additional info

[lmcfaull]

Thank you so much for sharing this - it is really interesting.  It would be great to know how Way young sustained the injury to his eye and amazing if he is the man they mention.  I have forwarded it to other family - thank you again

[Gregory]

Just an incidental postcript. I have a record of two Chinese mariners who died in service with SS Palm Branch: Gun Choi from Hong Kong. Fireman. Died 8.9.1916 in Boulogne. And Li Yon (aka Yow Li). Cook. Died 27.2.1917 in Liverpool; buried in Anfield Cemetery. As both of these men died of heart failure and not attributable war-related injuries, they have no CWGC commemoration.