Image of 8 RNAS insignia?

[Hein Poblome]

Would anyone have an image of the 8 RNAS insignia? It is the only insignia missing from my page meettheredbaron.com/statistics (at the bottom of the page), a table showing all oppponents of The Red Baron, sorted by Squadron.

Thanks

 

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, Hein Poblome said:

Would anyone have an image of the 8 RNAS insignia? It is the only insignia missing from my page meettheredbaron.com/statistics (at the bottom of the page), a table showing all oppponents of The Red Baron, sorted by Squadron.

Thanks

 

Is that Squadron insignia that you mean?  No 8 Squadron RNAS later became 208 Squadron.  Their crest can be seen below, but I don’t know when it was first adopted.

Perhaps @horatio2  and @KizmeRD can advise.

The enclosed portrait photo shows Colin Roy Mackenzie, who was a Flight Commander in 8 Squadron RNAS.

Here is a link to the squadron history: http://www.naval8-208-association.com/HistoryWWIPage01.html

 

 

 

Edited 11 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Hein Poblome]

yes, i am looking for the 8 RNAS squadron insignia

[FROGSMILE]

21 minutes ago, Hein Poblome said:

yes, i am looking for the 8 RNAS squadron insignia

Assuming there was one the RAF Museum at Hendon will very likely have its details.  Unfortunately the research department is temporarily closed until 1 April 2024:https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/research-enquiries/how-to-make-a-research-enquiry/

[Hein Poblome]

thanks, I sent them an email. When I get the picture I will post it here too.

[KizmeRD]

Quite frankly, I doubt that 8 RNAS had any time or energy for devising a squadron insignia, as the unit was formed in a matter of days and became operational on the Western Front, and in the thick of it in next to no time at all.
The Gizah Sphinx symbol was only adopted post-war, when 208 were based in Egypt.

If I had to guess at the sort of thing that would have tickled the pilots of Naval Eight at the time, then I might venture to suggest the adoption of Angry Bird insignia (copied from Werner Voss’s aircraft) - just joking!

MB

[horatio2]

I agrre with @KizmeRD

I can find no evidence that Admiralty-approved badges were created for RNAS squadrons. All the so-called ‘RFC badges’ listed on the OP’s linked page are actually RAF squadron badges, so it seems that the RFC did not have approved squadron badges either. No RAF squadron badges had been approved before the Red Baron’s death.

I would caution against the use of 208 Sqn RAF’s badge to illustrate 8 (Naval) Squadron in a similar way. The RAF badge design with the ‘royal’ crown is inappropriate: naval badges had a rope surround and were surmounted by a naval crown. The 208 Sqn badge clearly references that squadron’s basing in Egypt in the 1920s and it should not be considered to represent a spurious link back to 8 (Naval) Sqn.

I have no idea whether any RFC squadron ‘emblems’ were carried on to their successor (often much later) RAF squadron badges.

RFC and RNAS squadrons in WW1 may (or may not) have had squadron ‘emblems’ but these were never officially approved and their use is poorly documented, if at all.

[FROGSMILE]

22 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

I agrre with @KizmeRD

I can find no evidence that Admiralty-approved badges were created for RNAS squadrons. All the so-called ‘RFC badges’ listed on the OP’s linked page are actually RAF squadron badges, so it seems that the RFC did not have approved squadron badges either. No RAF squadron badges had been approved before the Red Baron’s death.

I would caution against the use of 208 Sqn RAF’s badge to illustrate 8 (Naval) Squadron in a similar way. The RAF badge design with the ‘royal’ crown is inappropriate: naval badges had a rope surround and were surmounted by a naval crown. The 208 Sqn badge clearly references that squadron’s basing in Egypt in the 1920s and it should not be considered to represent a spurious link back to 8 (Naval) Sqn.

I have no idea whether any RFC squadron ‘emblems’ were carried on to their successor (often much later) RAF squadron badges.

RFC and RNAS squadrons in WW1 may (or may not) have had squadron ‘emblems’ but these were never officially approved and their use is poorly documented, if at all.

Thank you horatio2 and kismeRD, that fits with my  understanding of the WW1 era and chimes with impressions gained via visits to the museum’s of Army flying (where I was based for a time), RAF and RNAS.  Some of the RFC squadrons adopted unofficial symbols, but there were no formally approved crests that I can recall.  The crests seem to me to possibly have their origin in the Royal Navy’s ships crests that were latterly (between wars) painted onto wooden tompions and fitted in gun muzzles.  As well as ships shore establishments and RNAS stations seem to have favoured these.  The similarity between the invariably round and rope encircled naval badges that you mentioned, and the subsequent RAF crests, seems, ostensibly at least, unlikely to be a mere coincidence.

Edited 11 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Hein Poblome]

this is what rafmuseum.org answered:

"Squadron badges did not exist at that time, I’m afraid. While most squadrons came up with their own unofficial devices at the time, the first official badges to be granted were in May 1936, which is when we see the iconic round badge design introduced.

If you wish to use these later RAF badges to represent the squadrons of the RFC and RNAS, then 8 Squadron RNAS became 208 Squadron RAF on 1 April 1918 so you can use that badge."

[FROGSMILE]

40 minutes ago, Hein Poblome said:

this is what rafmuseum.org answered:

"Squadron badges did not exist at that time, I’m afraid. While most squadrons came up with their own unofficial devices at the time, the first official badges to be granted were in May 1936, which is when we see the iconic round badge design introduced.

If you wish to use these later RAF badges to represent the squadrons of the RFC and RNAS, then 8 Squadron RNAS became 208 Squadron RAF on 1 April 1918 so you can use that badge."

Thank you Hein, that very neatly confirms the conclusion that contributors to the thread had reached earlier.